linux-kernel - Re: [GIT PULL] kdbus for 4.1-rc1

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Message-ID: <20150415114036.GB19274@kroah.com>
Date:	Wed, 15 Apr 2015 13:40:36 +0200
From:	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>
To:	Borislav Petkov <bp@...en8.de>
Cc:	Richard Weinberger <richard@....at>,
	Andy Lutomirski <luto@...capital.net>,
	Al Viro <viro@...iv.linux.org.uk>,
	"Eric W. Biederman" <ebiederm@...ssion.com>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
	Arnd Bergmann <arnd@...db.de>,
	One Thousand Gnomes <gnomes@...rguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
	Tom Gundersen <teg@...m.no>, Jiri Kosina <jkosina@...e.cz>,
	"linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	Daniel Mack <daniel@...que.org>,
	David Herrmann <dh.herrmann@...il.com>,
	Djalal Harouni <tixxdz@...ndz.org>
Subject: Re: [GIT PULL] kdbus for 4.1-rc1

On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 11:44:11AM +0200, Borislav Petkov wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 11:27:13AM +0200, Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote:
> > On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 11:21:49AM +0200, Borislav Petkov wrote:
> > > On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 11:20:34AM +0200, Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote:
> > > > > We're all forced to use cgroups, systemd, udev unless we want to have busybox
> > > > > as userland. That's a fact.
> > > > 
> > > > Is that a problem?
> > > 
> > > I'm amazed that you're really actually asking that question :-(
> > 
> > Really?  Why can't userspace rely on the features that the kernel
> > provides them?
> 
> Userspace can do whatever it wants. As long as I'm not being *forced* to
> do what userspace thinks is the right thing.
> 
> It seems to me that since that whole systemd* debacle started, we're
> forgetting the choice aspect.

What "choice" aspect?  Surely you aren't going to make the "Linux is
about choice" argument are you?

> And dammit, I want my choice. I want to be able to choose what I'm
> running. Not run what someone else thought what would be good for me to
> run. If I wanted that, I'd long switched to windoze or äbble.

Oh crap, you went there :)

Take a look at http://www.islinuxaboutchoice.com/ please.

And yes, you can take Linux (the kernel) and do whatever you want with
it (look at Android for an example of no existing userspace code, just
the kernel and everything else new for a "choice".)

You have to trust someone to help make your system work together in a
unified way.  If you can't trust your distro's engineers, then either
start your own distro, or only run busybox on top of a kernel.  You
really don't have much other "choice" than that :)

So stop making this discussion be about "oh those horrid systemd
developers, I don't want their code as my init system" as that's not
what any of this is about at all.  It's about the patches being
proposed, and the API involved in it.  Please stick to that.

greg k-h
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