Message-ID: <20150502224950.GA1837@newbook>
Date:	Sat, 2 May 2015 15:49:51 -0700
From:	Isaac Dunham <ibid.ag@...il.com>
To:	DLL Hell <trillodllhell@...iveweb.net>
Cc:	dng@...ts.dyne.org, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [Dng] Debian Dev: anti-systemd people hate women; thus
 respectable people should not support anti-systemd stance.

Well, I'll comment on a couple points, since the material you quoted
is rather misleading at best.

Full disclosure:
My only associations with the VUA are (1) subscribing to this list;
(2) using the devuan repositories, and (3) having an account on the
devuan gitlab, which I have only used to mirror a single repository
containing packaging for mdev.
I have used Debian and Ubuntu in the past, but I was only active in
the Debian User Forums, the Ubuntu Forums, and on Launchpad (I have
not been involved in Debian development beyond commenting on/filing
a very few bug reports, but would be technically capable, as I've
had a couple PPAs).
I am also involved in multiple unrelated projects where the community
is decidedly opposed to systemd (musl, busybox, toybox, puppy), and
in one where there are multiple technical barriers to using systemd
(Alpine Linux: grsec is the default kernel, musl is the libc).

* The laptop "for a developer" (pieced together from personal knowledge
 and comments here):
 Dima Krasner (Iguleder on the Puppy Linux forums) describes himself
 as an "independent R&D freelancer"; he has done a lot of work related
 to Puppy Linux, including Debian-based editions of Puppy.
 He was *not* one of the original "VUAs" or other participants in
 the fork process.
 His latest project before Devuan was announced was a vaguely Puppy-like
 independent distro, built from source for i486/32 megabyte systems
 (it may have been 20 megabytes minimum):
 in other words, aimed at *bare minimum* hardware.
 I can't tell for sure what hardware he had, but I would be rather
 surprised if it was significantly over 1.6 GHz (based on the minimal
 specs he was aiming at).
 As soon as the Devuan fork announcement was out, he started working on
 a stub library, then came up with a shim to use software compiled for
 logind with consolekit2 (loginkitd)
 The most productive approach for testing system software is to fire
 up a vm, which can be *extrememly* slow with limited hardware.
 Possibly for this reason, the VUAs agreed to get him a new laptop for
 testing and development of loginkitd.

* MikeeeUSA:
 There have been occasional posts from some individuals which
 resembled MikeeeUSA's rants.
 Said individuals have been flamed, banned, or possibly ignored; the
 first such poster accused the list in general of being SJWs, and
 tried to flame me when I requested that he moderate his language,
 saying that the New Testament was feminist. (In case you don't see
 the irony, I'm a Pentecostal/Fundamentalist Christian, and am
 generally disgusted with most feminists...and all MRAs.)

 There have also been some posts in "technical" threads directing
 vulgarities at systemd and its supporters as such; the reaction to
 these has varied from ignoring or *lightly* criticizing them to
 full agreement. Personally, I wish that this would stop: obscenity
 says litle beyond who the speaker is, especially about the target,
 though perhaps it's excusable to acknowledge the stupidity that
 some code has. (Insult the *code* if needed; not the coder, and even
 more certainly not the users.) I try to delete mails and threads that
 end up like this.

Thanks,
Isaac Dunham
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