Message-ID: <20150622123826.GF4430@dhcp22.suse.cz>
Date:	Mon, 22 Jun 2015 14:38:26 +0200
From:	Michal Hocko <mhocko@...e.cz>
To:	Eric B Munson <emunson@...mai.com>
Cc:	Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
	linux-alpha@...r.kernel.org, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
	linux-mips@...ux-mips.org, linux-parisc@...r.kernel.org,
	linuxppc-dev@...ts.ozlabs.org, sparclinux@...r.kernel.org,
	linux-xtensa@...ux-xtensa.org, linux-mm@...ck.org,
	linux-arch@...r.kernel.org, linux-api@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [RESEND PATCH V2 1/3] Add mmap flag to request pages are locked
 after page fault

On Fri 19-06-15 12:43:33, Eric B Munson wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Jun 2015, Michal Hocko wrote:
> 
> > On Thu 18-06-15 16:30:48, Eric B Munson wrote:
> > > On Thu, 18 Jun 2015, Michal Hocko wrote:
> > [...]
> > > > Wouldn't it be much more reasonable and straightforward to have
> > > > MAP_FAULTPOPULATE as a counterpart for MAP_POPULATE which would
> > > > explicitly disallow any form of pre-faulting? It would be usable for
> > > > other usecases than with MAP_LOCKED combination.
> > > 
> > > I don't see a clear case for it being more reasonable, it is one
> > > possible way to solve the problem.
> > 
> > MAP_FAULTPOPULATE would be usable for other cases as well. E.g. fault
> > around is all or nothing feature. Either all mappings (which support
> > this) fault around or none. There is no way to tell the kernel that
> > this particular mapping shouldn't fault around. I haven't seen such a
> > request yet but we have seen requests to have a way to opt out from
> > a global policy in the past (e.g. per-process opt out from THP). So
> > I can imagine somebody will come with a request to opt out from any
> > speculative operations on the mapped area in the future.
> > 
> > > But I think it leaves us in an even
> > > more akward state WRT VMA flags.  As you noted in your fix for the
> > > mmap() man page, one can get into a state where a VMA is VM_LOCKED, but
> > > not present.  Having VM_LOCKONFAULT states that this was intentional, if
> > > we go to using MAP_FAULTPOPULATE instead of MAP_LOCKONFAULT, we no
> > > longer set VM_LOCKONFAULT (unless we want to start mapping it to the
> > > presence of two MAP_ flags).  This can make detecting the MAP_LOCKED +
> > > populate failure state harder.
> > 
> > I am not sure I understand your point here. Could you be more specific
> > how would you check for that and what for?
> 
> My thought on detecting was that someone might want to know if they had
> a VMA that was VM_LOCKED but had not been made present becuase of a
> failure in mmap.  We don't have a way today, but adding VM_LOCKONFAULT
> is at least explicit about what is happening which would make detecting
> the VM_LOCKED but not present state easier. 

One could use /proc/<pid>/pagemap to query the residency.

> This assumes that
> MAP_FAULTPOPULATE does not translate to a VMA flag, but it sounds like
> it would have to.

Yes, it would have to have a VM flag for the vma.

> > From my understanding MAP_LOCKONFAULT is essentially
> > MAP_FAULTPOPULATE|MAP_LOCKED with a quite obvious semantic (unlike
> > single MAP_LOCKED unfortunately). I would love to also have
> > MAP_LOCKED|MAP_POPULATE (aka full mlock semantic) but I am really
> > skeptical considering how my previous attempt to make MAP_POPULATE
> > reasonable went.
> 
> Are you objecting to the addition of the VMA flag VM_LOCKONFAULT, or the
> new MAP_LOCKONFAULT flag (or both)? 

I thought the MAP_FAULTPOPULATE (or any other better name) would
directly translate into VM_FAULTPOPULATE and wouldn't be tight to the
locked semantic. We already have VM_LOCKED for that. The direct effect
of the flag would be to prevent from population other than the direct
page fault - including any speculative actions like fault around or
read-ahead.

> If you prefer that MAP_LOCKED |
> MAP_FAULTPOPULATE means that VM_LOCKONFAULT is set, I am fine with that
> instead of introducing MAP_LOCKONFAULT.  I went with the new flag
> because to date, we have a one to one mapping of MAP_* to VM_* flags.
> 
> > 
> > > If this is the preferred path for mmap(), I am fine with that. 
> > 
> > > However,
> > > I would like to see the new system calls that Andrew mentioned (and that
> > > I am testing patches for) go in as well. 
> > 
> > mlock with flags sounds like a good step but I am not sure it will make
> > sense in the future. POSIX has screwed that and I am not sure how many
> > applications would use it. This ship has sailed long time ago.
> 
> I don't know either, but the code is the question, right?  I know that
> we have at least one team that wants it here.
> 
> > 
> > > That way we give users the
> > > ability to request VM_LOCKONFAULT for memory allocated using something
> > > other than mmap.
> > 
> > mmap(MAP_FAULTPOPULATE); mlock() would have the same semantic even
> > without changing mlock syscall.
> 
> That is true as long as MAP_FAULTPOPULATE set a flag in the VMA(s).  It
> doesn't cover the actual case I was asking about, which is how do I get
> lock on fault on malloc'd memory?

OK I see your point now. We would indeed need a flag argument for mlock.
-- 
Michal Hocko
SUSE Labs
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