Date:	Fri, 17 Jul 2015 13:12:14 -0700
From:	"Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@...ux.vnet.ibm.com>
To:	Andy Lutomirski <luto@...capital.net>
Cc:	Sasha Levin <sasha.levin@...cle.com>,
	Frédéric Weisbecker <fweisbec@...il.com>,
	"linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>, X86 ML <x86@...nel.org>,
	Rik van Riel <riel@...hat.com>
Subject: Re: Reconciling rcu_irq_enter()/rcu_nmi_enter() with context tracking

On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 11:59:18AM -0700, Andy Lutomirski wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 9:49 PM, Paul E. McKenney
> <paulmck@...ux.vnet.ibm.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 09:29:07PM -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> >> On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 06:53:15PM -0700, Andy Lutomirski wrote:
> >> > For reasons that mystify me a bit, we currently track context tracking
> >> > state separately from rcu's watching state.  This results in strange
> >> > artifacts: nothing generic cause IRQs to enter CONTEXT_KERNEL, and we
> >> > can nest exceptions inside the IRQ handler (an example would be
> >> > wrmsr_safe failing), and, in -next, we splat a warning:
> >> >
> >> > https://gist.github.com/sashalevin/a006a44989312f6835e7
> >> >
> >> > I'm trying to make context tracking more exact, which will fix this
> >> > issue (the particular splat that Sasha hit shouldn't be possible when
> >> > I'm done), but I think it would be nice to unify all of this stuff.
> >> > Would it be plausible for us to guarantee that RCU state is always in
> >> > sync with context tracking state?  If so, we could maybe simplify
> >> > things and have fewer state variables.
> >>
> >> A noble goal.  Might even be possible, and maybe even advantageous.
> >>
> >> But it is usually easier to say than to do.  RCU really does need to make
> >> some adjustments when the state changes, as do the other subsystems.
> >> It might or might not be possible to do the transitions atomically.
> >> And if the transitions are not atomic, there will still be weird code
> >> paths where (say) the processor is considered non-idle, but RCU doesn't
> >> realize it yet.  Such a code path could not safely use rcu_read_lock(),
> >> so you still need RCU to be able to scream if someone tries it.
> >> Contrariwise, if there is a code path where the processor is considered
> >> idle, but RCU thinks it is non-idle, that code path can stall
> >> grace periods.  (Yes, not a problem if the code path is short enough.
> >> At least if the underlying VCPU is making progres...)
> >>
> >> Still, I cannot prove that it is impossible, and if it is possible,
> >> then as you say, there might well be benefits.
> >>
> >> > Doing this for NMIs might be weird.  Would it make sense to have a
> >> > CONTEXT_NMI that's somehow valid even if the NMI happened while
> >> > changing context tracking state.
> >>
> >> Face it, NMIs are weird.  ;-)
> >>
> >> > Thoughts?  As it stands, I think we might already be broken for real:
> >> >
> >> > Syscall -> user_exit.  Perf NMI hits *during* user_exit.  Perf does
> >> > copy_from_user_nmi, which can fault, causing do_page_fault to get
> >> > called, which calls exception_enter(), which can't be a good thing.
> >> >
> >> > RCU is okay (sort of) because of rcu_nmi_enter, but this seems very fragile.
> >>
> >> Actually, I see more cases where people forget irq_enter() than
> >> rcu_nmi_enter().  "We will just nip in quickly and do something without
> >> actually letting the irq system know.  Oh, and we want some event tracing
> >> in that code path."  Boom!
> >>
> >> > Thoughts?  As it stands, I need to do something because -tip and thus
> >> > -next spews occasional warnings.
> >>
> >> Tell me more?
> >
> > And for completeness, RCU also has the following requirements on the
> > state-transition mechanism:
> >
> > 1.      It must be possible to reliably sample some other CPU's state.
> >         This is an energy-efficiency requirement, as RCU is not normally
> >         permitted to wake up idle CPUs.  Nor nohz CPUs, for that matter.
> 
> NOHZ needs this for vtime accounting, too.  I think Rik might be
> thinking about this.  Maybe the underlying state could be shared?

>From what I understand, what Rik is looking at is accounting information,
which is a different type of state.  And a type of state where some
approximation is just fine.  Try that with RCU, and you will approximate
yourself into a segfault.

> > 2.      RCU must be able to track passage through idle and nohz states.
> >         In other words, if RCU samples at t=0 and finds that the CPU
> >         is executing (say) in kernel mode, and RCU samples again at
> >         t=10 and again finds that the CPU is executing in kernel mode,
> >         RCU needs to be able to determine whether or not that CPU passed
> >         through idle or nohz betweentimes.
> 
> And RCU can do this for CONTEXT_KERNEL vs CONTEXT_USER because the
> context tracking stuff notifies RCU.  The think I'm less than happy
> with is that we can currently be CONTEXT_USER but still rcu-awake.
> This is manageable, but it seems messy.

Well, if you don't have CONFIG_NO_HZ_FULL, there normally isn't context
tracking, so RCU cannot see CONTEXT_USER.  Or are you thinking of making
context tracking unconditional?  (The tinification guys might have some
opinions on this.)

> > 3.      In some configurations, RCU needs to be able to block entry into
> >         nohz state, both for idle and userspace.
> 
> Hmm.  I suppose we could be CONTEXT_USER but still have RCU awake,
> although the tick would have to stay on.

Right, there are situations where RCU needs a given CPU to keep the tick
going, for example, when there are RCU callbacks queued on that CPU.
Failing to keep the tick going could result in a system hang, because
that callback might never be invoked.  Of course, something or another
will normally eventually disturb the CPU, but the resulting huge delay
would not be good.  And on deep embedded systems, it is quite possible
that the CPU would go for a good long time without being disturbed.
(This is not just a theoretical possibility, and I have the scars to
prove it.)

And there is this one as well:

4.	In CONFIG_NO_HZ_FULL_SYSIDLE=y kernels, RCU has to treat userspace
	context differently than idle context, and still needs to be
	able to take two samples and determine if the CPU ever went idle
	(and only idle, not userspace) betweentimes.

> Grumble.

Welcome to my world!  ;-)

							Thanx, Paul

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