Message-ID: <55CA1249.9080508@arm.com>
Date:	Tue, 11 Aug 2015 16:18:33 +0100
From:	"Suzuki K. Poulose" <Suzuki.Poulose@....com>
To:	Catalin Marinas <catalin.marinas@....com>
CC:	Mark Rutland <Mark.Rutland@....com>,
	"aph@...hat.com" <aph@...hat.com>,
	Will Deacon <Will.Deacon@....com>,
	"linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	"edward.nevill@...aro.org" <edward.nevill@...aro.org>,
	"linux-arm-kernel@...ts.infradead.org" 
	<linux-arm-kernel@...ts.infradead.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 01/10] arm64: feature registers: Documentation

On 11/08/15 15:46, Catalin Marinas wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 06:36:46PM +0100, Suzuki K. Poulose wrote:
>> On 10/08/15 17:06, Catalin Marinas wrote:
>>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 10:43:47AM +0100, Suzuki K. Poulose wrote:
>>>> From: "Suzuki K. Poulose" <suzuki.poulose@....com>
>>>>
>>>> Documentation of the infrastructure
>>>>
>>>> Signed-off-by: Suzuki K. Poulose <suzuki.poulose@....com>

...

>>> + a) Any change to the HWCAPs requires an update to userspace (e.g libc)
>>>> +    to detect the new changes, which can take a long time to appear in
>>>> +    distributions. Exposing the registers allows applications to get the
>>>> +    information without requiring other userspace components to be updated.
>>>
>>> How does it help if you have a new CPUID field or even a new value in an
>>> existing field? Doesn't userspace need to be changed anyway to make use
>>> of the new feature? I don't think that's a valid argument.
>>
>> Yes, the userspace would need an update to work with the new CPUID field. I understand.
>> It is just that, "in the enterprise world" updates to the system libraries provided by
>> the distribution might take a bit longer to provide the changes than a software vendor.
>> I agree thats not a common case.
>
> What I meant is that for a new CPU feature, the user space needs
> updating anyway to make use of (add support for) it, whether it checks
> its presence via HWCAP or MRS. Let's say we get new crypto instructions,
> existing user space won't even check for it because it doesn't know
> there is a new CPUID field (or HWCAP bit).
>

I understand that, thats why I mentioned a 'software vendor' could roll out an
update independent of the 'system libraries' provided by the distribution, where
standard distributions might have their own schedule. But, I agree that the userspace
needs update and my 'story' is not common :)

>>> 2. We still need features listed in /proc/cpuinfo, at least for humans
>>>     reading this file or scripts that can't issue mrs instructions
>>
>> Agreed, we still need to provide the features in /proc/cpuinfo. We could do
>> this without HWCAP if we decide not to update the list.
>
> I agree, /proc/cpuinfo is doable without HWCAP. But since some software
> ends up parsing /proc/cpuinfo anyway, I don't see why we should hide
> HWCAP.
>

Right.

>>>> +3. Implementation
>>>> +--------------------
>>>> +
>> ...
>>>> +The infrastructure emulates only the following system register space:
>>>> +	Op0=3, Op1=0, CRn=0
>>>> +
>>>> +(See Table C5-6 'System instruction encodings for System register accesses'
>>>> + in ARMv8 ARM, for the list of registers).
>>>> +
>>>> +
>>>> +The following rules are applied to the value returned by the infrastructure:
>>>> +
>>>> + a) The value of an 'IMPLEMENTATION DEFINED' field is set to 0.
>>>> + b) The value of a reserved field is set to the reserved value(as
>>>> +    defined by the architecture).
>>>
>>> Do we expose any IMPLEMENTATION DEFINED or reserved field to user?
>>
>> We don't. All such fields are marked invisible. The above rules define
>> how we fill those 'special' (invisible) fields. We 'emulate' all
>> access to the space (as defined above) with Op0=3, Op1=0 & CRn=0.
>> Out of this space, there are only a very few 'visible' fields(listed in
>> section 4). These rules, define how the values are emulated.
>
> Point b) above is a bit confusing - reserved field is set to the
> reserved value. If the reserved value is non-zero, do we expose such
> value to user or we return zero as for other invisible fields?

At the moment, we are exposing the reserved values to not confuse the user, which
- I thought - is safer than exposing 0. Value 0 could have a different meaning in
the future(if it is not RES0 already).

>>>> + c) The value of a field marked as not 'visible', is set to indicate
>>>> +    the feature is missing (as defined by the architecture).
>>>> + d) The value of a 'visible' field holds the system wide safe value
>>>> +    for the particular feature(except for MIDR_EL1, see section 4)
>>>
>>> I'm slightly confused by the visible/not-visible definition. GIC for
>>> example may be present but we don't want to expose it to user, hence you
>>> marked it as "not visible" in the table. But the feature is definitely
>>> not missing, it may be present and we just decided not to expose it to
>>> EL0 since it is not relevant.
>>
>> Thats right. In this case, the userspace will see that 'GIC' is not present
>> even though it is available. Btw, the system wide value(exposed to the system
>> wide users) could be different from what the user gets. e.g, if all the CPUs
>> have GIC system register access, the system view will have 'GIC' available.
>>
>> Taking another example to explain rule (d), if all CPUs but one supports CRC32
>> instructions, both the system view and the user view will have CRC32 disabled.
>
> OK. I missed the difference between "system wide view" and "user view".
> I guess the former is not exposed to user.

Right, the system view and the user view are different. User view will only get the
visible parts from the 'System view'.

>
> As I mentioned in my reply to Ard, we need a HWCAP entry to inform the
> user of the MRS emulation. My question is whether to use a single
> HWCAP_CPUID or multiple for each ID register (e.g.
> HWCAP_ID_AA64ISAR0_EL1 or a shorter HWCAP_ID_ISAR0). The advantage of
> the latter is that we can expose new CPUID registers if any of them
> appear (or there is a useful feature in a register we don't expose).

The current implementation, kind of solves the issue. i.e, we expose
a safe value(which implies 'feature not available') for all the registers
in the id space (including the reserved ids) we plan to emulate. So if we
decide to expose something, userspace need not make any change. It could
continue to read the register safely and decide if the feature is available or not
and take appropriate decisions.


Thanks
Suzuki

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