Message-ID: <20150921142222.GA24005@mail.hallyn.com>
Date:	Mon, 21 Sep 2015 09:22:22 -0500
From:	"Serge E. Hallyn" <serge@...lyn.com>
To:	Chen Fan <chen.fan.fnst@...fujitsu.com>
Cc:	"Serge E. Hallyn" <serge@...lyn.com>,
	"Eric W. Biederman" <ebiederm@...ssion.com>,
	Konstantin Khlebnikov <khlebnikov@...dex-team.ru>,
	Serge Hallyn <serge.hallyn@...ntu.com>,
	Stéphane Graber <stgraber@...ntu.com>,
	linux-api@...r.kernel.org, containers@...ts.linux-foundation.org,
	Oleg Nesterov <oleg@...hat.com>, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>
Subject: Re: Re: [PATCH RFC] pidns: introduce syscall getvpid

On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at 10:49:39AM +0800, Chen Fan wrote:
> 
> On 09/17/2015 12:31 AM, Serge E. Hallyn wrote:
> >On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 09:49:02AM -0500, Eric W. Biederman wrote:
> >>"Serge E. Hallyn" <serge@...lyn.com> writes:
> >>
> >>>On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 10:37:33AM +0300, Konstantin Khlebnikov wrote:
> >>>>On 15.09.2015 20:41, Serge Hallyn wrote:
> >>>>>Quoting Stéphane Graber (stgraber@...ntu.com):
> >>>>>>On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 06:01:38PM +0300, Konstantin Khlebnikov wrote:
> >>>>>>>On 15.09.2015 17:27, Eric W. Biederman wrote:
> >>>>>>>>Konstantin Khlebnikov <khlebnikov@...dex-team.ru> writes:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>pid_t getvpid(pid_t pid, pid_t source, pid_t target);
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>This syscall converts pid from one pid-ns into pid in another pid-ns:
> >>>>>>>>>it takes @pid in namespace of @source task (zero for current) and
> >>>>>>>>>returns related pid in namespace of @target task (zero for current too).
> >>>>>>>>>If pid is unreachable from target pid-ns then it returns zero.
> >>>>>>>>This interface as presented is inherently racy.  It would be better
> >>>>>>>>if source and target were file descriptors referring to the namespaces
> >>>>>>>>you wish to translate between.
> >>>>>>>Yep, it's racy. As well as any operation with non-child pids.
> >>>>>>>With file descriptors for source/target result will be racy anyway.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Such conversion is required for interaction between processes from
> >>>>>>>>>different pid-namespaces. For example when system service talks with
> >>>>>>>>>client from isolated container via socket about task in container:
> >>>>>>>>Sockets are already supported.  At least the metadata of sockets is.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Maybe we need this but I am not convinced of it's utility.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>What are you trying to do that motivates this?
> >>>>>>>I'm working on hierarchical container management system which
> >>>>>>>allows to create and control nested sub-containers from containers
> >>>>>>>( https://github.com/yandex/porto ). Main server works in host and
> >>>>>>>have to interact with all levels of nested namespaces. This syscall
> >>>>>>>makes some operations much easier: server must remember only pid in
> >>>>>>>host pid namespace and convert it into right vpid on demand.
> >>>>>>Note that as Eric said earlier, sending a PID inside a ucred through a
> >>>>>>unix socket will have the pid translated.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>So while your solution certainly should be faster, you can already achieve
> >>>>>>what you want today by doing:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>== Translate PID in container to PID in host
> >>>>>>  - open a socket
> >>>>>>  - setns to container's pidns
> >>>>>>  - send ucred from that container containing the requested container PID
> >>>>>>  - host sees the host PID
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>== Translate PID on host to PID in container
> >>>>>>  - open a socket
> >>>>>>  - setns to container's pidns
> >>>>>>  - send ucred from the host containing the request host PID
> >>>>>>    (send will fail if the host PID isn't part of that container)
> >>>>>>  - container sees the container PID
> >>>>>In addition, since commit e4bc332451 : /proc/PID/status: show all sets of pid according to ns
> >>>>>we now also have 'NSpid' etc in /proc/$$/status.
> >>>>>
> >>>>As I see this works perfectly only for converting host pid into virtual.
> >>>>
> >>>>Backward conversion is troublesome: we have to scan all pids in host
> >>>>procfs and somehow filter tasks from container and its sub-pid-ns.
> >>>>Or I am missing something trivial?
> >>>Ah, no that doesn't help with this.
> >>>
> >>>What Stéphane describes is what I've done in several projects.
> >>>Getting it right is however actually quite tricky.  I'm not
> >>>convinced it's at the level of "since you can do (sweep hands)
> >>>all this, we don't need a simple syscall to do it."
> >>>
> >>>So I'd encourage you to resend using namespace inode fds for
> >>>source and target as Eric suggested.  We still may decide that
> >>>the syscall isn't needed, but it's a trivial change to your
> >>>patch and removes that race.  And I'm not convinced it's not
> >>>needed.
> >>At this point my primary concern is that a pattern that would need to be
> >>convering to and from pids quickly is potentially fundamentally racy to
> >>the point of broken.
> >The cgmanager GetTasks and GetTasksRecursive, and reading of the
> >lxcfs cgroup /tasks files, require converting every pid from the
> >cgmanager's namespace to the reading task's namespace.
> >
> >>Especially with unix domain sockets passing and converting pids in a way
> >>that covers the common case.
> >>
> >>I am clearly missing some nuance of this use case.
> >lxcfs and cgmanager are imo proof that we *can* do without the new
> >syscall.  However, the git history will show that there are some
> >complications, and the system load when a few systemds are starting
> >will show that it does take a performance toll on the host at some
> >point.  Still as I say it's doable.  The syscall implementation was
> >very simple, though.
> 
> Yes, previous email discussed about the implementation of syscall or procfs:
> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/linux/kernel/1971723?search_string=chen%20hanxiao;#1971723
> 
> but it seems complicated implemented by procfs, the original discussion at:
> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/linux/kernel/2076440?search_string=chen%20hanxiao;#2076440

So please implement it, as Eric suggested, using the ns inode fds
instead of racy pid_t hints for namespaces.
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