linux-kernel - Re: [RFC PATCH] PM / Runtime: runtime: Add sysfs option for forcing runtime suspend

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Message-ID: <CAJZ5v0iROHkuXBPKw_tY_xRuV+N8_C=rU_rWePK44YJVWz36Gg@mail.gmail.com>
Date:	Mon, 28 Sep 2015 22:03:28 +0200
From:	"Rafael J. Wysocki" <rafael@...nel.org>
To:	Alan Stern <stern@...land.harvard.edu>
Cc:	"Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@...ysocki.net>,
	Oliver Neukum <oneukum@...e.de>,
	Dmitry Torokhov <dmitry.torokhov@...il.com>,
	Irina Tirdea <irina.tirdea@...el.com>,
	Len Brown <len.brown@...el.com>,
	Octavian Purdila <octavian.purdila@...el.com>,
	"Rafael J. Wysocki" <rafael@...nel.org>,
	Ulf Hansson <ulf.hansson@...aro.org>,
	Pavel Machek <pavel@....cz>,
	"linux-input@...r.kernel.org" <linux-input@...r.kernel.org>,
	"linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	"linux-pm@...r.kernel.org" <linux-pm@...r.kernel.org>,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH] PM / Runtime: runtime: Add sysfs option for forcing
 runtime suspend

Hi Alan,

On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Alan Stern <stern@...land.harvard.edu> wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Sep 2015, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
>
>> > This suggests we forget about power/wakeup == "off" and introduce an
>> > "inhibit" attribute instead.
>>
>> If we do that, can it still be regarded as a PM attribute?
>
> Why not?  Consider this: Is there any reason to support inhibit when
> CONFIG_PM is disabled?  I can't come up with any.

Well, the "I don't want any input from you now, because the phone is
going into a pocket" case?

It isn't stticlty dependent on PM.

>> And what about the corresponding callback?  Should that be a PM callback or
>> a general one?
>
> Well, if "inhibit" is a PM attribute then the callback should be a PM
> callback.  :-)
>
>> > > Question is, though, what's the use case for turning off I/O when we don't
>> > > go into runtime suspend.  After all, runtime suspend need not mean putting
>> > > the device into any kind of low-power state and the "off" thing may very
>> > > well be defined to mean that all input is discarded if the device is
>> > > runtime-suspended and the device is not configured to do remote wakeup
>> > > then.
>> >
>> > Well, I suppose there might be a driver that supports inhibit but
>> > doesn't support runtime PM, unlikely as that seems.  Or the driver
>> > might support both but the user might leave power/control == "on" while
>> > inhibiting the device.
>>
>> That sounds like a general rather than PM-related mechanism then.
>
> I don't follow your reasoning.

Support for "inhibit" and lack of runtime PM support means that the
feature has nothing to do with PM any more AFAICS.

That's why I think it may be regarded by more than just PM.  It should
make runtime PM behave in a specific way if supported, but then it
should work withot it too, shouldn't it?

>> I guess we need a real use case for that last thing or it will be rather
>> difficult to convince Greg to accept the patch. :-)
>
> The hard part is to come up with a design that Greg agrees with.  If
> the design is okay, there's no reason not to accept the patch.
>
> One of the questions amounts to this: Do we want to allow situations
> where input is inhibited but the user prevents the device from going
> into runtime suspend by setting power/control = "on"?  If the answer is
> Yes then "inhibit" should be a separate attribute.  Otherwise, we can
> just let "inhibit" be another setting in power/control.

I think that the answer really is "yes" in general as long as it makes
sense to discard input without closing the device.

My understanding of "inhibit" would be "discard all input including
any wakeup events from now on".  It would be quite natural for runtime
suspend to trigger if that is set (unless disabled or not supported,
of course), but I don't think that this should be a requirement.

> Another question is: Do we want to make it easy for drivers to support
> inhibit while still incrementing their PM usage counter every time the
> device file is opened?  If we do then inhibit must be considered
> separate from runtime suspend, because a device _can't_ go directly
> into runtime suspend when the usage counter is > 1.  If we don't then
> we will most likely have to change the runtime-PM support in some
> drivers before they can implement inhibit.

My opinion is that "inhibit" should affect PM, but should not require
PM to function (there's no technical reason for that).

Thanks,
Rafael
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