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Date:	Mon, 5 Oct 2015 09:57:03 -0700
From:	"Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@...ux.vnet.ibm.com>
To:	Will Deacon <will.deacon@....com>
Cc:	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>,
	Boqun Feng <boqun.feng@...il.com>,
	"linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	"linuxppc-dev@...ts.ozlabs.org" <linuxppc-dev@...ts.ozlabs.org>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@...nel.org>,
	Benjamin Herrenschmidt <benh@...nel.crashing.org>,
	Paul Mackerras <paulus@...ba.org>,
	Michael Ellerman <mpe@...erman.id.au>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@...utronix.de>,
	Waiman Long <waiman.long@...com>
Subject: Re: [RFC v2 4/7] powerpc: atomic: Implement xchg_* and
 atomic{,64}_xchg_* variants

On Mon, Oct 05, 2015 at 03:44:07PM +0100, Will Deacon wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 01, 2015 at 07:03:01PM +0100, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> > On Thu, Oct 01, 2015 at 07:13:04PM +0200, Peter Zijlstra wrote:
> > > On Thu, Oct 01, 2015 at 08:09:09AM -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> > > > On Thu, Oct 01, 2015 at 02:24:40PM +0200, Peter Zijlstra wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > I must say I'm somewhat surprised by this level of relaxation, I had
> > > > > expected to only loose SMP barriers, not the program order ones.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Is there a good argument for this?
> > > > 
> > > > Yes, when we say "relaxed", we really mean relaxed.  ;-)
> > > > 
> > > > Both the CPU and the compiler are allowed to reorder around relaxed
> > > > operations.
> > > 
> > > Is this documented somewhere, because I completely missed this part.
> > 
> > Well, yes, these need to be added to the documentation.  I am assuming
> > that Will is looking to have the same effect as C11 memory_order_relaxed,
> > which is relaxed in this sense.  If he has something else in mind,
> > he needs to tell us what it is and why.  ;-)
> 
> I was treating them purely as being single-copy atomic and not providing
> any memory ordering guarantees (much like the non *_return atomic operations
> that we already have). I think this lines up with C11, minus the bits
> about data races which we don't call out anyway.

As long as it is single-copy atomic and not multi-copy atomic, I believe
we are on the saem page.  We have slowly been outlawing some sorts of
data races over the past few years, and I would guess that this will
continue, expecially if good tooling emerges (and KTSAN is showing some
promise from what I can see).

							Thanx, Paul

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