linux-kernel - Re: [PATCH v2] barriers: introduce smp_mb__release

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Date:	Fri, 9 Oct 2015 13:51:11 +0100
From:	Will Deacon <will.deacon@....com>
To:	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>
Cc:	"Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@...ux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	Michael Ellerman <mpe@...erman.id.au>,
	linux-arch@...r.kernel.org, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
	Boqun Feng <boqun.feng@...il.com>,
	Anton Blanchard <anton@...ba.org>,
	Benjamin Herrenschmidt <benh@...nel.crashing.org>,
	Paul Mackerras <paulus@...ba.org>,
	linuxppc-dev@...ts.ozlabs.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2] barriers: introduce smp_mb__release_acquire and
 update documentation

On Fri, Oct 09, 2015 at 01:12:02PM +0200, Peter Zijlstra wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 09, 2015 at 10:40:39AM +0100, Will Deacon wrote:
> > > Which leads me to think I would like to suggest alternative rules for
> > > RELEASE/ACQUIRE (to replace those Will suggested; as I think those are
> > > partly responsible for my confusion).
> > 
> > Yeah, sorry. I originally used the phrase "fully ordered" but changed it
> > to "full barrier", which has stronger transitivity (newly understood
> > definition) requirements that I didn't intend.
> 
> > Are we explicit about the difference between "fully ordered" and "full
> > barrier" somewhere else, because this looks like it will confuse people.
> 
> I suspect we don't.
> 
> > >  - RELEASE -> ACQUIRE can be upgraded to a full barrier (including
> > >    transitivity) using smp_mb__release_acquire(), either before RELEASE
> > >    or after ACQUIRE (but consistently [*]).
> > 
> > Hmm, but we don't actually need this for RELEASE -> ACQUIRE, afaict. This
> > is just needed for UNLOCK -> LOCK, and is exactly what RCU is currently
> > using (for PPC only).
> 
> No, we do need that. RELEASE/ACQUIRE is RCpc for TSO as well as PPC.
> 
> UNLOCK/LOCK is only RCpc for PPC, the rest of the world has RCsc for
> UNLOCK/LOCK.
> 
> The reason RELEASE/ACQUIRE differ from UNLOCK/LOCK is the fundamental
> difference between ACQUIRE and LOCK.

But they don't actually differ in the kernel memory model we have right
now, thanks to PPC (we can't be stronger than the weakest implementation).
That's the whole reason we've got this unlock_lock mess!

> Where ACQUIRE really is just a LOAD, LOCK ends up fundamentally being a
> RmW and a control dependency.

Have you checked that this is true for the recent RELEASE/ACQUIRE
conversions in things like the qrwlock? In particular, we should annotate
those control dependencies to make them glaringly obvious if we want to
rely on sequentially-consistent locks (and also Alpha may need that).

> Now, if you want to upgrade your RCpc RELEASE/ACQUIRE to RCsc, you need
> to do that on the inside (either after ACQUIRE or before RELEASE), this
> is crucial (as per Paul's argument) for the case where the RELEASE and
> ACQUIRE happen on different CPUs.
> 
> IFF RELEASE and ACQUIRE happen on the _same_ CPU, then it doesn't
> matter and you can place the barrier in any of the 3 possible locations
> (before RELEASE, between RELEASE and ACQUIRE, after ACQUIRE).

Right, but these two need to be different barriers so that we don't
penalise TSO when UNLOCK -> LOCK ordering is required. That's why I was
proposing the local variant of smp_mb__after_release_acquire().

I think we're in agreement about the barriers we need, we just need to
name them (and then I'll cook a patch and we can GOTO 10).

Will
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
the body of a message to majordomo@...r.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/