Message-ID: <CAAObsKDWM6A98tdKHqi4fe5DBf0BmB0JeghcZDWan_PYbyshag@mail.gmail.com>
Date:	Mon, 19 Oct 2015 17:00:54 +0200
From:	Tomeu Vizoso <tomeu.vizoso@...labora.com>
To:	Russell King - ARM Linux <linux@....linux.org.uk>
Cc:	Mark Brown <broonie@...nel.org>,
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Subject: Re: [GIT PULL] On-demand device probing

On 19 October 2015 at 16:30, Russell King - ARM Linux
<linux@....linux.org.uk> wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 04:10:56PM +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote:
>> On 19 October 2015 at 15:18, Russell King - ARM Linux
>> <linux@....linux.org.uk> wrote:
>> > On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 02:34:22PM +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote:
>> >> ... If a device is available and has
>> >> a compatible driver, but it cannot be probed because a dependency
>> >> isn't going to be available, that's an error and is going to cause
>> >> real-world problems unless the device is redundant. Currently we say
>> >> nothing because with deferred probe the probe callbacks are also part
>> >> of the mechanism that determines the dependency order.
>> >
>> > So what if device X depends on device Y, and we have a driver for
>> > device Y built-in to the kernel, but the driver for device X is a
>> > module?
>> >
>> > I don't see this being solvable in the way you describe above - it's
>> > going to identify X as being unable to be satisfied, and report it as
>> > an error - but it's not an error at all.
>>
>> It's going to probe Y at late_initcall, then probe X when its driver
>> is registered. No deferred probes nor messages about it.
>>
>> But if you meant to write the opposite case (X built-in and Y in a
>> module), then I have to ask you in what situation that would make
>> sense.
>
> I did mean the opposite way around.  It may not make sense if you're
> targetting a single platform, but it may make sense in a single zImage
> kernel.
>
> Consider something like a single zImage kernel that is built with
> everything built-in to be able to boot and mount rootfs without
> initramfs support on both platform A and platform B.  Both platforms
> share some hardware (eg, an I2C GPIO expander) which is built as a
> module.  It is a resource provider.  Platform B contains a driver
> which is required to boot on platform A, but not platform B (so the
> kernel has to have that driver built-in.)  On platform B, there is
> a dependency to the I2C GPIO expander device.

I see, in this situation the person trying to find out why some device
hadn't probed would enable debug logging of failed probes and would
see one spurious message if there was a deferred probe because of the
module.

>> >> Having a specific switch for enabling deferred probe logging sounds
>> >> good, but there's going to be hundreds of spurious messages about
>> >> deferred probes that were just deferrals and only one of them is going
>> >> to be the actual error in which a device failed to find a dependency.
>> >
>> > Why would there be?  Sounds like something's very wrong there.
>>
>> Sorry about that, I have checked that only now and I "only" get 39
>> deferred probe messages on exynos5250-snow.
>
> I typically see one or two, maybe five maximum on the platforms I have
> here, but normally zero.

Hmm, I have given a look at our lava farm and have seen 2 dozens as
common (with multi_v7).

>> > So, really, after boot and all appropriate modules have been loaded,
>> > you should end up with no deferred probes.  Are you saying that you
>> > still have "hundreds" at that point?  If you do, that sounds like
>> > there's something very wrong.
>>
>> I was talking about messages if we log each -EPROBE_DEFER, not devices
>> that remain to be probed. The point being that right now we don't have
>> a way to know if we are deferring because the dependency will be
>> around later, or if we have a problem and the dependency isn't going
>> to be there at all.
>
> What's the difference between a dependency which isn't around because
> the driver is not built into the kernel but is available as a module,
> and a dependency that isn't around because the module hasn't been
> loaded yet?
>
> How do you distinguish between those two scenarios?  In the former
> scenario, the device will eventually come up when udev loads the
> module.  In the latter case, it's a persistent failing case.

Agreed, but it's something that doesn't happen often and that's why
such messages would be at the debug level instead of being warns or
errors.

>> Agreed, with the note from above on why it would be better to only
>> print such a message only when the -EPROBE_DEFER is likely to be a
>> problem.
>
> ... and my argument is that there's _no way_ to know for certain which
> deferred probes will be a problem, and which won't.  The only way to
> definitely know that is if you disable kernel modules, and require
> all drivers to be built into the kernel.
>
> What you can do is print those devices which have failed to probe at
> late_initcall() time - possibly augmenting that with reports from
> subsystems showing what resources are not available, but that's only
> a guide, because of the "it might or might not be in a kernel module"
> problem.

Well, adding those reports would give you a changelog similar to the
one in this series...

Thanks,

Tomeu

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