Message-ID: <568FF369.9080006@landley.net>
Date:	Fri, 8 Jan 2016 11:35:37 -0600
From:	Rob Landley <rob@...dley.net>
To:	Simon Horman <horms@...ge.net.au>, Rich Felker <dalias@...c.org>
Cc:	linux-sh@...r.kernel.org, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
	Yoshinori Sato <ysato@...rs.sourceforge.jp>,
	Geert Uytterhoeven <geert@...ux-m68k.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>,
	"D. Jeff Dionne" <jeff@...inux.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 2/2] MAINTAINERS: remove linux-sh list from non-arch/sh
 sections

On 01/08/2016 12:56 AM, Simon Horman wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 07, 2016 at 11:40:54PM -0500, Rich Felker wrote:
>> From: Rich Felker <dalias@...c.org>
>>
>> Recently the bulk of traffic on the linux-sh list has been unrelated
>> to arch/sh but instead focused on Renesas hardware for their ARM-based
>> SoCs. As part of resuming maintenance of arch/sh, remove the linux-sh
>> list from the MAINTAINERS file sections for these other components so
>> that new arch/sh development is not drowned out by unrelated
>> cross-postings.
> 
> The use of the linux-sh mailing list has evolved somewhat over time,
> from SH related to ARM related. Its name (obviously) has not evolved.

According to http://vger.kernel.org/vger-lists.html#linux-sh

  This is the development discussion and bug reporting mailing list
  for the Linux port to the SuperH architecture.

By "evolved" you mean "acquired a bunch of off-topic traffic because the
architecture's original owner abandoned it and moved on to other things
that already _have_ lists, but treated this list as their own personal
scratch pad".

Those people let the architecture this list was created for become
unmaintained for a year and a half. DURING that year and a half they
posted unrelated content to the list because they think it belongs to
them personally rather than to Linux.

Now that the architecture is becoming maintained again (on the hardware
side as well, because the patents have expired and other people are
taking an interest), we would like to reclaim this list to develop the
Linux arch/sh directory.

This is a kernel list, not a Renesas list.

> Dropping linux-sh@...r.kernel.org from portions of the MAINTAINERS file as
> you suggest would essentially leave the Renesas ARM work without a mailing
> list or patchwork instance.

Here's a half-dozen arm lists already:

  http://www.arm.linux.org.uk/mailinglists/lists.php

And that's not even a complete list of them all:

  http://vger.kernel.org/vger-lists.html#linux-tegra

> Both of which are actively used for that work.

Off-topic traffic exists, therefore it should exist? Its volume is its
justification? Why do we have spam filters then?

> Off-hand I can think of three solutions to this problem:
> 
> 1. Live with the noise
> 2. Establish a new list (and possibly patchwork instance) for the SH work.

So... squatter's rights?

Renesas calling its new arm stuff "shmobile" is as relevant as Intel
designating itanic "ia64" as the successor to "ia32". The superh
architecture's only been officially unmaintained for a year and change
(presumably because the patents were expiring so they saw no more profit
in it for themselves).

Meanwhile there was active superh-compatible work off-list during that
time (the j-core stuff) that's just now coming to fruition, building off
20 years of history and a decade and change of previous Linux development.

> 3. Establish a new list and patchwork instance for the ARM work.

Now that people are interested in superh again, the correct answer
seemed to be #3, which is what we were suggesting.

A similar situation occurred when buildroot didn't have its own mailing
list for several years and used the uClibc list: uClibc development
suffered greatly. I eventually got sick of it and created a new
buildroot list and politely kicked the traffic off, which is why the
first message in the buildroot mailing list archive is:

  http://lists.busybox.net/pipermail/buildroot/2006-July/012219.html

The corresponding "please move the buildroot traffic off the uClibc
list" thread started at:

  http://lists.busybox.net/pipermail/uclibc/2006-July/036836.html

The current list is not a Renesas list, it is a Linux list for the
SuperH architecture port. Says so on the tin, and that was its history
until pretty recently. Renesas moving away from the SuperH architecture
doesn't change that this is the Linux arch/sh list.

We aren't proposing to rename the arch/sh directory to "jcore", so
"linux-sh@...r.kernel.org" remains the logical name for this list. The
new stuff is intentionally backwards compatible with the old stuff, and
we are happy to maintain compatibility with the old stuff, and have
current plans to move it to device tree. (We just need a lot more legacy
test hardware...)

Rob

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