linux-kernel - Re: [PATCH 2/2] block: create ioctl to discard-or-zeroout a range of blocks

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Date:	Thu, 17 Mar 2016 13:50:49 -0400
From:	Ric Wheeler <rwheeler@...hat.com>
To:	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>,
	Gregory Farnum <greg@...gs42.com>
Cc:	Eric Sandeen <sandeen@...hat.com>, "Theodore Ts'o" <tytso@....edu>,
	Andreas Dilger <adilger@...ger.ca>,
	"Darrick J. Wong" <darrick.wong@...cle.com>,
	Dave Chinner <david@...morbit.com>,
	Andy Lutomirski <luto@...capital.net>,
	One Thousand Gnomes <gnomes@...rguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
	Martin Petersen <martin.petersen@...cle.com>,
	Christoph Hellwig <hch@...radead.org>,
	Jens Axboe <axboe@...nel.dk>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
	Linux API <linux-api@...r.kernel.org>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	shane.seymour@....com, Bruce Fields <bfields@...ldses.org>,
	linux-fsdevel <linux-fsdevel@...r.kernel.org>,
	Jeff Layton <jlayton@...chiereds.net>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 2/2] block: create ioctl to discard-or-zeroout a range of
 blocks

On 03/17/2016 01:47 PM, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 10:18 PM, Gregory Farnum <greg@...gs42.com> wrote:
>> So we've not asked for NO_HIDE_STALE on the mailing lists, but I think
>> it was one of the problems Sage had using xfs in his BlueStore
>> implementation and was a big part of why it moved to pure userspace.
>> FileStore might use NO_HIDE_STALE in some places but it would be
>> pretty limited. When it came up at Linux FAST we were discussing how
>> it and similar things had been problems for us in the past and it
>> would've been nice if they were upstream.
> Hmm.
>
> So to me it really sounds like somebody should cook up a patch, but we
> shouldn't put it in the upstream kernel until we get numbers and
> actual "yes, we'd use this" from outside of google.
>
> I say "outside of google", because inside of google not only do we not
> get numbers, but google can maintain their own patch.
>
> But maybe Ted could at least post the patch google uses, and somebody
> in the Ceph community might want to at least try it out...
>
>>                                                                 What *is* a big deal for
>> FileStore (and would be easy to take advantage of) is the thematically
>> similar O_NOMTIME flag, which is also about reducing metadata updates
>> and got blocked on similar stupid-user grounds (although not security
>> ones): http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel.api/10727.
> Hmm. I don't hate that patch, because the NOATIME thing really does
> wonders on many loads. NOMTIME makes sense.
>
> It's not like you can't do this with utimes() anyway.
>
> That said, I do wonder if people wouldn't just prefer to expand on and
> improve on the lazytime.
>
> Is there some reason you guys didn't use that?
>
>> As noted though, we've basically given up and are moving to a
>> pure-userspace solution as quickly as we can.
> That argues against worrying about this all in the kernel unless there
> are other users.
>
>                    Linus

Just a note, when Greg says "user space solution", Ceph is looking at writing 
directly to raw block devices which is kind of a through back to early 
enterprise database trends.

Ric