linux-kernel - Re: [tpmdd-devel] [PATCH RFC 0/4] RFC: in-kernel resource manager

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Message-ID: <20170104124815.jzwdx6ybojdgin5p@intel.com>
Date:   Wed, 4 Jan 2017 14:48:15 +0200
From:   Jarkko Sakkinen <jarkko.sakkinen@...ux.intel.com>
To:     Jason Gunthorpe <jgunthorpe@...idianresearch.com>
Cc:     James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@...senPartnership.com>,
        linux-security-module@...r.kernel.org,
        tpmdd-devel@...ts.sourceforge.net,
        open list <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [tpmdd-devel] [PATCH RFC 0/4] RFC: in-kernel resource manager

On Tue, Jan 03, 2017 at 02:47:02PM -0700, Jason Gunthorpe wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 03, 2017 at 08:36:10AM -0800, James Bottomley wrote:
> 
> > > I'm not sure about this. Why you couldn't have a very thin daemon 
> > > that prepares the file descriptor and sends it through UDS socket to 
> > > a client.
> > 
> > So I'm a bit soured on daemons from the trousers experience: tcsd
> > crashed regularly and when it did it took all the TPM connections down
> > irrecoverably.  I'm not saying we can't write a stateless daemon to fix
> > most of the trousers issues, but I think it's valuable first to ask the
> > question, "can we manage without a daemon at all?"  I actually think
> > the answer is "yes", so I'm interested in seeing how far that line of
> > research gets us.
> 
> There is clearly no need for a daemon to be involved when working on
> simple tasks like key load and key sign/enc/dec actions, adding such a
> thing only increases the complexity.
> 
> If we discover a reason to have a daemon down the road then it should
> work in some way where the user space can call out to the daemon over
> a different path than the kernel. (eg dbus or something)
> 
> > Do you have a link to the presentation?  The Plumbers etherpad doesn't
> > contain it.  I've been trying to work out whether a properly set up TPM
> > actually does need any protections at all.  As far as I can tell, once
> > you've set all the hierarchy authorities and the lockout one, you're
> > pretty well protected.
> 
> I think we should also consider TPM 1.2 support in all of this, it is
> still a very popular peice of hardware and it is equally able to
> support a RM.

I'm not against considering TPM 1.2 support but getting both in the
same patch set would be too much.

> 
> So, in general, I'd prefer to see the unprivileged char dev hard
> prevented by the kernel from doing certain things:
> 
> - Wipe the TPM
> - Manipulate the SRK, nvram, tpm flags, change passwords etc
> - Read back the EK
> - Write to PCRs
> - etc.

I rather have an ioctl where you can supply a list of CCs that you
want to allow a client to do.

/Jarkko

> Even if TPM 2 has a stronger password based model, I still think the
> kernel should hard prevent those sorts of actions even if the user
> knows the TPM password.
> 
> Realistically people in less senstive environments will want to use
> the well known TPM passwords and still have reasonable safety in their
> unprivileged accounts.
> 
> Jason