Message-ID: <3fb61bd2-f844-67ab-1036-8a577ad0ef43@gmail.com>
Date:   Tue, 31 Jan 2017 13:50:57 -0500
From:   "Austin S. Hemmelgarn" <ahferroin7@...il.com>
To:     Paul Menzel <pmenzel@...gen.mpg.de>,
        Mario Limonciello <mario.limonciello@...l.com>,
        Borislav Petkov <bp@...en8.de>
Cc:     Ashok Raj <ashok.raj@...el.com>, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
        Thorsten Leemhuis <linux@...mhuis.info>,
        Len Brown <len.brown@...el.com>,
        Tony Luck <tony.luck@...el.com>
Subject: Re: Dell XPS13: MCE (Hardware Error) reported

On 2017-01-31 10:29, Paul Menzel wrote:
> Dear Borislav, dear Mario,
>
>
> On 01/27/17 18:16, Mario.Limonciello@...l.com wrote:
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Borislav Petkov [mailto:bp@...en8.de]
>>> Sent: Friday, January 27, 2017 11:11 AM
>>> To: Paul Menzel <pmenzel@...gen.mpg.de>
>>> Cc: Ashok Raj <ashok.raj@...el.com>; Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-
>>> kernel@...r.kernel.org>; Thorsten Leemhuis <linux@...mhuis.info>; Len
>>> Brown <len.brown@...el.com>; Tony Luck <tony.luck@...el.com>;
>>> Limonciello, Mario <Mario_Limonciello@...l.com>
>>> Subject: Re: Dell XPS13: MCE (Hardware Error) reported
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 02:35:16PM +0100, Paul Menzel wrote:
>>>> Thank you very much for your help. After wasting my time with the Dell
>>>> support over Twitter [1], where they basically also make you jump
>>>> through hoops,
>>>
>>> Fun read that twitter page. Especially the bit about not supporting
>>> Linux but
>>> but you did ship this laptop with ubuntu. LOOL.
>>>
>>> FWIW, this is not the first time I've heard vendors trying to get
>>> away from
>>> dealing with bugs by playing the "we-dont-support-Linux" card.
>
> I think, in this case it was an honest mistake from the support person,
> which they corrected in a follow-up post.
>
> But the next conversion was a little disappointing as the problem was
> already diagnosed out on the LKML.
>
> As Mario replied, the Twitter people do not seem to know the free
> software world that well, that “normal” people actually are in contact
> with the developers.
>
> What surprises me though is, that the change-log for the firmware seems
> to be incomplete even for the Dell staff.
>
>>> Good to know when I go looking for a new laptop in the future.
>
> Unfortunately, there are not a lot of options. If you know a good
> vendor, please share.
>
> Dell is one of the view “big” vendors selling laptops with a GNU/Linux
> operating system installed.
>
> There are Google Chromebooks, which even have coreboot. Google’s
> Chromium team does a great job and have a great quality assurance. On
> par, or even better than Apple, I’d say.
>
> Some people need more powerful devices though.
>
> In Germany, I know of TUXEDO [1]. Also, Purism devices have GNU/Linux
> installed [2].
>
> TUXEDO does not build the devices themselves, and gets template
> models(?) from Chinese manufactures. They only seem to start hiring the
> expertise to do Linux kernel and OS work themselves [3]. Currently, it’s
> mostly the stock Ubuntu for desktop with their artwork and some small
> optimizations.
When it comes to laptops, I've recently become a fan of System76 [1]. 
Linux runs pretty much flawlessly on all the systems I've ever 
encountered from them without needing any special configuration, and 
they offer some pretty high-end systems.  Their Oryx Pro laptop is 
particularly impressive, it's got hardware on par with a desktop bearing 
a similar price-tag, which is rare even for systems that ship with 
Windows per-installed.  They're based in the US, but I'm pretty certain 
they ship worldwide, and like most of the better manufacturers these 
days, the systems are made-to-order with quite a lot in the way of 
options (you can even get an NVMe boot drive in their higher-end systems 
if you're willing to shell out more than a third of the base cost for 
the system on it).

They also do desktops and servers, but it's generally cheaper in my 
experience for anything but a laptop to just build it yourself.
>
>> Sorry you had that experience.  I'll pass that on to get that messaging
>> corrected.  The team that does Linux support doesn't use twitter, they
>> do phone and email support only.
>
> Thank you that’s good to know.
>
>> I'm glad you got things sorted moving to the next FW version.
>
> Me too.
>
> Mario, there are at least two more firmware bugs [4][5][6]. Having fast
> suspend and resume says something about the quality of a device. If the
> Dell XPS13 9360 is supposed to compete with Apple devices, and Google
> Chromebooks, then this should be improved in my opinion. Do you have a
> suggestion on how to best get this solved? Do you want me to contact the
> support, or are there Dell employees with access to the Linux kernel
> Bugzilla bug tracker?
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Paul
>
>
> [1] https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/
> [2] https://puri.sm/
> [3]
> https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/Jobs-Karriere-Stellenausschreibungen.geek?x6a1ec=o8323ih26224vook9uu997r1a5
>
> [4] https://github.molgen.mpg.de/mariux64/dell_xps13/
> [5] https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=185611
> [6] https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=185621
[1] https://system76.com/

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