Date:   Thu, 16 Mar 2017 23:11:22 +0100
From:   Pavel Machek <pavel@....cz>
To:     Mauro Carvalho Chehab <mchehab@...pensource.com>
Cc:     Hans Verkuil <hverkuil@...all.nl>,
        Sakari Ailus <sakari.ailus@....fi>,
        Russell King - ARM Linux <linux@...linux.org.uk>,
        Steve Longerbeam <slongerbeam@...il.com>, robh+dt@...nel.org,
        mark.rutland@....com, shawnguo@...nel.org, kernel@...gutronix.de,
        fabio.estevam@....com, mchehab@...nel.org, nick@...anahar.org,
        markus.heiser@...marIT.de, p.zabel@...gutronix.de,
        laurent.pinchart+renesas@...asonboard.com, bparrot@...com,
        geert@...ux-m68k.org, arnd@...db.de, sudipm.mukherjee@...il.com,
        minghsiu.tsai@...iatek.com, tiffany.lin@...iatek.com,
        jean-christophe.trotin@...com, horms+renesas@...ge.net.au,
        niklas.soderlund+renesas@...natech.se, robert.jarzmik@...e.fr,
        songjun.wu@...rochip.com, andrew-ct.chen@...iatek.com,
        gregkh@...uxfoundation.org, shuah@...nel.org,
        sakari.ailus@...ux.intel.com, devicetree@...r.kernel.org,
        linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, linux-arm-kernel@...ts.infradead.org,
        linux-media@...r.kernel.org, devel@...verdev.osuosl.org,
        Steve Longerbeam <steve_longerbeam@...tor.com>,
        Jacek Anaszewski <j.anaszewski@...sung.com>
Subject: Re: media / v4l2-mc: wishlist for complex cameras (was Re: [PATCH v4
 14/36] [media] v4l2-mc: add a function to inherit controls from a pipeline)

Hi!

> > > > mplayer is useful for testing... but that one already works (after you
> > > > setup the pipeline, and configure exposure/gain).
> > > > 
> > > > But thats useful for testing, not really for production. Image will be
> > > > out of focus and with wrong white balance.
> > > > 
> > > > What I would really like is an application to get still photos. For
> > > > taking pictures with manual settings we need
> > > > 
> > > > a) units for controls: user wants to focus on 1m, and take picture
> > > > with ISO200, 1/125 sec. We should also tell him that lens is f/5.6 and
> > > > focal length is 20mm with 5mm chip.
> > > > 
> > > > But... autofocus/autogain would really be good to have. Thus we need:
> > > > 
> > > > b) for each frame, we need exposure settings and focus position at
> > > > time frame was taken. Otherwise autofocus/autogain will be too
> > > > slow. At least focus position is going to be tricky -- either kernel
> > > > would have to compute focus position for us (not trivial) or we'd need
> > > > enough information to compute it in userspace.
> > > > 
> > > > There are more problems: hardware-accelerated preview is not trivial
> > > > to set up (and I'm unsure if it can be done in generic way). Still
> > > > photos application needs to switch resolutions between preview and
> > > > photo capture. Probably hardware-accelerated histograms are needed for
> > > > white balance, auto gain and auto focus, ....
> > > > 
> > > > It seems like there's a _lot_ of stuff to be done before we have
> > > > useful support for complex cameras...  
> > > 
> > > Taking still pictures using a hardware-accelerated preview is
> > > a sophisticated use case. I don't know any userspace application
> > > that does that. Ok, several allow taking snapshots, by simply
> > > storing the image of the current frame.  
> > 
> > Well, there are applications that take still pictures. Android has
> > one. Maemo has another. Then there's fcam-dev. Its open source; with
> > modified kernel it is fully usable. I have version that runs on recent
> > nearly-mainline on N900. 
> 
> Hmm... it seems that FCam is specific for N900:
> 	http://fcam.garage.maemo.org/
> 
> If so, then we have here just the opposite problem, if want it to be
> used as a generic application, as very likely it requires OMAP3-specific
> graph/subdevs.

Well... there's quick and great version on maemo.org. I do have local
version (still somehow N900-specific), but it no longer uses hardware
histogram/sharpness support. Should be almost generic.

> > So yes, I'd like solution for problems a) and b).

...but it has camera parameters hardcoded (problem a) and slow
(problem b). 

> > Question is if camera without autofocus is usable. I'd say "not
> > really".qv4l2
> 
> That actually depends on the sensor and how focus is adjusted.
> 
> I'm testing right now this camera module for RPi:
>    https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/camera-module-v2/
> 
> I might be wrong, but this sensor doesn't seem to have auto-focus.
> Instead, it seems to use a wide-angle lens. So, except when the
> object is too close, the focus look OK.

Well, cameras without autofocus are somehow usable without
autofocus. But cameras with autofocus don't work too well without one.

> > If we really want to go that way (is not modifying library to access
> > the right files quite easy?), I believe non-confusing option would be
> > to have '/dev/video0 -- omap3 camera for legacy applications' which
> > would include all the controls.
> 
> Yeah, keeping /dev/video0 reserved for generic applications is something
> that could work. Not sure how easy would be to implement it.

Plus advanced applications would just ignore /dev/video0.. and not be confused.

> > > > > > You can get Nokia N900 on aliexpress. If not, they are still available
> > > > between people :-)  
> > > 
> > > I have one. Unfortunately, I never had a chance to use it, as the display
> > > stopped working one week after I get it.  
> > 
> > Well, I guess the easiest option is to just get another one :-).
> 
> :-)  Well, I guess very few units of N900 was sold in Brazil. Importing
> one is too expensive, due to taxes.

Try to ask at local mailing list. Those machines were quite common.

> > But otoh -- N900 is quite usable without the screen. 0xffff tool can
> > be used to boot the kernel, then you can use nfsroot and usb
> > networking. It also has serial port (over strange
> > connector). Connected over ssh over usb network is actually how I do
> > most of the v4l work.
> 
> If you pass me the pointers, I can try it when I have some time.

Ok, I guess I'll do that in private email.

> Anyway, I got myself an ISEE IGEPv2, with the expansion board:
> 	https://www.isee.biz/products/igep-processor-boards/igepv2-dm3730
> 	https://www.isee.biz/products/igep-expansion-boards/igepv2-expansion
> 
> The expansion board comes with a tvp5150 analog TV demod. So, with
> this device, I can simply connect it to a composite input signal.
> I have some sources here that I can use to test it.

Well... it looks like TV capture is a "solved" problem. Taking useful
photos is what is hard...


									Pavel
-- 
(english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek
(cesky, pictures) http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html

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