lists.openwall.net   lists  /  announce  owl-users  owl-dev  john-users  john-dev  passwdqc-users  yescrypt  popa3d-users  /  oss-security  kernel-hardening  musl  sabotage  tlsify  passwords  /  crypt-dev  xvendor  /  Bugtraq  Full-Disclosure  linux-kernel  linux-netdev  linux-ext4  linux-hardening  PHC 
Open Source and information security mailing list archives
 
Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.
[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]
Date:   Wed, 05 Apr 2017 09:13:11 +1000
From:   NeilBrown <neilb@...e.com>
To:     Jeff Layton <jlayton@...hat.com>,
        Matthew Wilcox <willy@...radead.org>
Cc:     linux-fsdevel@...r.kernel.org, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
        linux-ext4@...r.kernel.org, akpm@...ux-foundation.org,
        tytso@....edu, jack@...e.cz
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 0/4] fs: introduce new writeback error tracking infrastructure and convert ext4 to use it

On Tue, Apr 04 2017, Jeff Layton wrote:

> On Tue, 2017-04-04 at 09:12 -0700, Matthew Wilcox wrote:
>> On Tue, Apr 04, 2017 at 08:17:48AM -0400, Jeff Layton wrote:
>> > Agreed that we should focus on POSIX compliance. I'll also note that
>> > POSIX states:
>> > 
>> > "If more than one error occurs in processing a function call, any one
>> > of the possible errors may be returned, as the order of
>> > detection is undefined."
>> > 
>> >     http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/functions/V2_chap02.html#tag_15_03
>> > 
>> > So, I'd like to push back on this idea that we need to prefer reporting
>> > -EIO over other errors. POSIX certainly doesn't mandate that. 
>> 
>> I honestly wonder if we need to support ENOSPC from writeback at all.
>> Looking at our history, the AS_EIO / AS_ENOSPC came from this patch
>> in 2003:
>> 
>> https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/tglx/history.git/commit/?id=fcad2b42fc2e15a94ba1a1ba8535681a735bfd16
>> 
>> That seems to come from here:
>> http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0308.0/0205.html
>> which is marked as a resend, but I can't find the original.
>> 
>> It's a little misleading because the immediately preceding patch
>> introduced mapping->error, so there's no precedent here to speak of.
>> It looks like we used to just silently lose writeback errors (*cough*).
>> 
>> I'd like to suggest that maybe we don't need to support multiple errors
>> at all.  That all errors, including ENOSPC, get collapsed into EIO.
>> POSIX already tells us to do that for close() and permits us to do that
>> for fsync().
>> 
>
> That is certainly allowed under POSIX as I interpret the spec. At a
> minimum we just need a single flag and can collapse all errors under
> that.
>
> That said, I think giving more specific errors where we can is useful.
> When your program is erroring out and writing 'I/O error' to the logs,
> then how much time will your admins burn before they figure out that it
> really failed because the filesystem was full?

What if you don't have an admin?  What if it was an over-quota error?
I think precise error messages are valuable.
I am leaning towards "last error wins" though.  The complexity of any
scheme that reports "worst recent error" seems to out weigh the value.

I think we should present this as a service to filesystems. e.g. create
a "recent_wb_error" structure which the filesystem can record errors in
when they occur, and syscalls can read errors from.
One of these would be provided in 'struct address_space', but
filesystems can easily embed one in their own data structure
(e.g. nfs_open_context) if they want to.

I don't think we should return a recent_wb_error on close by default,
but individual filesystems can ("man 2 close" implies NFS does this for
EDQUOT at it should continue to do so).

fsync() (and file_sync_range()) should return a recent_wb_error, but
what about write()?  It would be a suitable way to stop an application
early, but it isn't exactly the requested write that failed...
Posix says of EIO from write:

    A physical I/O error has occurred.

which is rather vague.  Where and when did this error in physics (:-)
occur?

O_DIRECT write() can get an EIO from a previous write-back write to the
same file.  Maybe non-O_DIRECT writes should too?

Thanks,
NeilBrown

Download attachment "signature.asc" of type "application/pgp-signature" (833 bytes)

Powered by blists - more mailing lists