linux-kernel - Re: net/sched: latent livelock in dev_deactivate

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Message-ID: <1491440927.4718.21.camel@gmx.de>
Date:   Thu, 06 Apr 2017 03:08:47 +0200
From:   Mike Galbraith <efault@....de>
To:     Cong Wang <xiyou.wangcong@...il.com>
Cc:     netdev <netdev@...r.kernel.org>,
        LKML <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>
Subject: Re: net/sched: latent livelock in dev_deactivate_many() due to
 yield() usage

On Wed, 2017-04-05 at 16:55 -0700, Cong Wang wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 11:12 PM, Mike Galbraith <efault@....de> wrote:
> > On Tue, 2017-04-04 at 22:25 -0700, Cong Wang wrote:
> > > On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 8:20 PM, Mike Galbraith <efault@....de> wrote:
> > > > -               while (some_qdisc_is_busy(dev))
> > > > -                       yield();
> > > > +               swait_event_timeout(swait,
> > > > !some_qdisc_is_busy(dev), 1);
> > > >  }
> > > 
> > > I don't see why this is an improvement even if I don't care about the
> > > hardcoded timeout for now... Why the scheduler can make a better
> > > decision with swait_event_timeout() than with cond_resched()?
> > 
> > Because sleeping gets you out of the way?  There is no other decision
> > the scheduler can make while a SCHED_FIFO task is trying to yield when
> > it is the one and only task at it's priority.  The scheduler is doing
> > exactly what it is supposed to do, problem is people calling yield()
> > tend to think it does something it does not do, which is why it is
> > decorated with "if you think you want yield(), think again"
> > 
> > Yes, yield semantics suck rocks, basically don't exist.  Hop in your
> > time machine and slap whoever you find claiming responsibility :)
> 
> I am not trying to defend for yield(), I am trying to understand when
> cond_resched() is not a right solution to replace yield() and when it is.
> For me, the dev_deactivate_many() case is, because I interpret
> "be nice" differently.

Yeah, I know you weren't defending it, just as I know that the net-fu
masters don't need that comment held close to their noses in order to
be able to read it.. waving it about wasn't for their benefit ;-)

	-Mike