linux-kernel - Re: [RFC PATCH 2/2] mm, fs: daxfile, an interface for byte-addressable updates to pmem

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Message-ID: <CAPcyv4jt2EMfiVB-5uOdjKMuYfLrqUdK4vYkteqAqXkSRqTs5g@mail.gmail.com>
Date:   Sun, 18 Jun 2017 18:51:49 -0700
From:   Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@...el.com>
To:     Christoph Hellwig <hch@....de>
Cc:     Andy Lutomirski <luto@...nel.org>,
        Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
        Jan Kara <jack@...e.cz>,
        linux-nvdimm <linux-nvdimm@...ts.01.org>,
        Linux API <linux-api@...r.kernel.org>,
        Dave Chinner <david@...morbit.com>,
        "linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        "linux-mm@...ck.org" <linux-mm@...ck.org>,
        Jeff Moyer <jmoyer@...hat.com>,
        Linux FS Devel <linux-fsdevel@...r.kernel.org>,
        Ross Zwisler <ross.zwisler@...ux.intel.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 2/2] mm, fs: daxfile, an interface for
 byte-addressable updates to pmem

On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 1:18 AM, Christoph Hellwig <hch@....de> wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 17, 2017 at 08:15:05PM -0700, Dan Williams wrote:
>> The hang up is that it requires per-fs enabling as it needs to be
>> careful to manage mmap_sem vs fs journal locks for example. I know the
>> in-development NOVA [1] filesystem is planning to support this out of
>> the gate. ext4 would be open to implementing it, but I think xfs is
>> cold on the idea. Christoph originally proposed it here [2], before
>> Dave went on to propose immutable semantics.
>>
>> [1]: https://github.com/NVSL/NOVA
>> [2]: https://lists.01.org/pipermail/linux-nvdimm/2016-February/004609.html
>
> And I stand to that statement.  Let's get DAX stable first, and
> properly cleaned up (e.g. follow on work with separating it entirely
> from the block device).  Then think hard about how most of the
> persistent memory technologies actually work, including the point that
> for a lot of workloads page cache will be required at least on the
> write side.   And then come up with actual real use cases and we can
> look into it.

I see it differently. We're already at a good point in time to start
iterating on a fix for this issue. Ross and Jan have done a lot of
good work on the dax stability front, and the block-device separation
of dax is well underway.

> And stop trying to shoe-horn crap like this in.

The kernel shoe-horning all pmem+filesystem-dax applications into
abiding page-cache semantics is a problem, and this RFC has already
helped move the needle on a couple fronts. 1/ Swapfiles are subtly
broken which is something worth fixing, and if it gets us a
synchronous-dax mode without major filesystem surgery then that's all
for the better. 2/ There's an appetite for just fixing this
incrementally in each filesystem's fault handler, so if ext4 was able
to prove out an interface / implementation for synchronous faults we
could go with that instead of a pre-allocated + immutable interface
and let other filesystems set their own timelines.