lists.openwall.net   lists  /  announce  owl-users  owl-dev  john-users  john-dev  passwdqc-users  yescrypt  popa3d-users  /  oss-security  kernel-hardening  musl  sabotage  tlsify  passwords  /  crypt-dev  xvendor  /  Bugtraq  Full-Disclosure  linux-kernel  linux-netdev  linux-ext4  linux-hardening  linux-cve-announce  PHC 
Open Source and information security mailing list archives
 
Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.
[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [day] [month] [year] [list]
Date:   Sat, 1 Jul 2017 00:44:20 +0900
From:   Taeung Song <treeze.taeung@...il.com>
To:     Namhyung Kim <namhyung@...il.com>
Cc:     Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo <acme@...nel.org>,
        LKML <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        Milian Wolff <milian.wolff@...b.com>,
        Jiri Olsa <jolsa@...hat.com>,
        Masami Hiramatsu <mhiramat@...nel.org>,
        Adrian Hunter <adrian.hunter@...el.com>,
        Wang Nan <wangnan0@...wei.com>,
        Jin Yao <yao.jin@...ux.intel.com>,
        Andi Kleen <ak@...ux.intel.com>,
        Kim Phillips <kim.phillips@....com>,
        David Ahern <dsahern@...il.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH/RFC 1/4] perf annotate: Add --source-only option

Thank you for detailed review.

On 06/30/2017 12:18 AM, Namhyung Kim wrote:
> Resend with a proper mail address..
> 
> On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 12:14 AM, Namhyung Kim <namhyung@...nel.org> wrote:
>> Hi Taeung,
>>
>> Thanks for doing this work!
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 12:14 PM, Taeung Song <treeze.taeung@...il.com> wrote:
>>> The option can show the result of performance analysis
>>> based on full source code per symbol(function).
>>> This view can be a precheck before assembly code level
>>> and be the additional useful view point.
>>>
>>> For example, if target symbol is 'hex2u64' of util/util.c,
>>> the output is like below.
>>>
>>>      $ perf annotate --source-only --stdio -s hex2u64
>>>   Percent |      Source code of util.c for cycles:ppp (42 samples)
>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>      0.00 : 354   * While we find nice hex chars, build a long_val.
>>>      0.00 : 355   * Return number of chars processed.
>>>      0.00 : 356   */
>>>      0.00 : 357  int hex2u64(const char *ptr, u64 *long_val)
>>>      2.38 : 358  {
>>>      2.38 : 359          const char *p = ptr;
>>>      0.00 : 360          *long_val = 0;
>>>      0.00 : 361
>>>     30.95 : 362          while (*p) {
>>>     23.81 : 363                  const int hex_val = hex(*p);
>>>      0.00 : 364
>>>     14.29 : 365                  if (hex_val < 0)
>>>      0.00 : 366                          break;
>>>      0.00 : 367
>>>     26.19 : 368                  *long_val = (*long_val << 4) | hex_val;
>>>      0.00 : 369                  p++;
>>>      0.00 : 370          }
>>>      0.00 : 371
>>>      0.00 : 372          return p - ptr;
>>>      0.00 : 373  }
>>>
>>> Suggested-by: Namhyung Kim <namhyung@...nel.org>
>>> Cc: Milian Wolff <milian.wolff@...b.com>
>>> Cc: Jiri Olsa <jolsa@...hat.com>
>>> Cc: Masami Hiramatsu <mhiramat@...nel.org>
>>> Cc: Adrian Hunter <adrian.hunter@...el.com>
>>> Cc: Wang Nan <wangnan0@...wei.com>
>>> Cc: Jin Yao <yao.jin@...ux.intel.com>
>>> Cc: Andi Kleen <ak@...ux.intel.com>
>>> Cc: Kim Phillips <kim.phillips@....com>
>>> Cc: David Ahern <dsahern@...il.com>
>>> Signed-off-by: Taeung Song <treeze.taeung@...il.com>
>>> ---
>>>   tools/perf/builtin-annotate.c     |   2 +
>>>   tools/perf/ui/browsers/annotate.c |   5 -
>>>   tools/perf/util/annotate.c        | 303 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++-
>>>   tools/perf/util/annotate.h        |  22 +++
>>>   tools/perf/util/symbol.c          |   1 +
>>>   tools/perf/util/symbol.h          |   1 +
>>>   6 files changed, 325 insertions(+), 9 deletions(-)
>>>
>>> diff --git a/tools/perf/builtin-annotate.c b/tools/perf/builtin-annotate.c
>>> index 7a5dc7e..054c74f 100644
>>> --- a/tools/perf/builtin-annotate.c
>>> +++ b/tools/perf/builtin-annotate.c
>>> @@ -436,6 +436,8 @@ int cmd_annotate(int argc, const char **argv)
>>>                       symbol__config_symfs),
>>>          OPT_BOOLEAN(0, "source", &symbol_conf.annotate_src,
>>>                      "Interleave source code with assembly code (default)"),
>>> +       OPT_BOOLEAN(0, "source-only", &symbol_conf.annotate_src_only,
>>> +                   "Display source code for each symbol"),
>>>          OPT_BOOLEAN(0, "asm-raw", &symbol_conf.annotate_asm_raw,
>>>                      "Display raw encoding of assembly instructions (default)"),
>>>          OPT_STRING('M', "disassembler-style", &disassembler_style, "disassembler style",
>>> diff --git a/tools/perf/ui/browsers/annotate.c b/tools/perf/ui/browsers/annotate.c
>>> index 27f41f2..b075a32 100644
>>> --- a/tools/perf/ui/browsers/annotate.c
>>> +++ b/tools/perf/ui/browsers/annotate.c
>>> @@ -14,11 +14,6 @@
>>>   #include <linux/kernel.h>
>>>   #include <sys/ttydefaults.h>
>>>
>>> -struct disasm_line_samples {
>>> -       double          percent;
>>> -       u64             nr;
>>> -};
>>> -
>>>   #define IPC_WIDTH 6
>>>   #define CYCLES_WIDTH 6
>>>
>>> diff --git a/tools/perf/util/annotate.c b/tools/perf/util/annotate.c
>>> index be1caab..4108520 100644
>>> --- a/tools/perf/util/annotate.c
>>> +++ b/tools/perf/util/annotate.c
>>> @@ -1379,6 +1379,277 @@ static const char *annotate__norm_arch(const char *arch_name)
>>>          return normalize_arch((char *)arch_name);
>>>   }
>>>
>>> +static int parse_srcline(char *srcline, char **path, int *line_nr)
>>> +{
>>> +       char *sep;
>>> +
>>> +       if (srcline == NULL || !strcmp(srcline, SRCLINE_UNKNOWN))
>>> +               return -1;
>>> +
>>> +       sep = strchr(srcline, ':');
>>> +       if (sep) {
>>> +               *sep = '\0';
>>> +               if (path)
>>> +                       *path = srcline;
>>> +               *line_nr = strtoul(++sep, NULL, 0);
>>> +       } else
>>> +               return -1;
>>> +
>>> +       return 0;
>>> +}
>>> +
>>> +static void code_line__free(struct code_line *cl)
>>> +{
>>> +       zfree(&cl->line);
>>> +       zfree(&cl->matched_dl);
>>> +       zfree(&cl->samples_sum);
>>> +       free(cl);
>>> +}
>>> +
>>> +static void code_lines__free(struct list_head *code_lines)
>>> +{
>>> +       struct code_line *pos, *tmp;
>>> +
>>> +       if (list_empty(code_lines))
>>> +               return;
>>> +
>>> +       list_for_each_entry_safe(pos, tmp, code_lines, node) {
>>> +               list_del_init(&pos->node);
>>> +               code_line__free(pos);
>>> +       }
>>> +}
>>> +
>>> +static int symbol__free_source_code(struct symbol *sym)
>>> +{
>>> +       struct annotation *notes = symbol__annotation(sym);
>>> +       struct source_code *code = notes->src->code;
>>> +
>>> +       if (code == NULL)
>>> +               return -1;
>>> +
>>> +       code_lines__free(&code->lines);
>>> +       zfree(&code->path);
>>> +       zfree(&notes->src->code);
>>> +       return 0;
>>> +}
>>> +
>>> +static void code_line__sum_samples(struct code_line *cl, struct disasm_line *dl,
>>> +                                  struct annotation *notes, struct perf_evsel *evsel)
>>> +{
>>> +       int i;
>>> +       u64 nr_samples;
>>> +       struct sym_hist *h;
>>> +       struct source_code *code = notes->src->code;
>>> +
>>> +       for (i = 0; i < code->nr_events; i++) {
>>> +               double percent = 0.0;
>>> +
>>> +               h = annotation__histogram(notes, evsel->idx + i);
>>> +               nr_samples = h->addr[dl->offset];
>>> +               if (h->sum)
>>> +                       percent = 100.0 * nr_samples / h->sum;
>>> +
>>> +               cl->samples_sum[i].percent += percent;
>>> +               cl->samples_sum[i].nr += nr_samples;
>>> +       }
>>> +}
>>> +
>>> +static void source_code__print(struct code_line *cl, int nr_events,
>>> +                              struct annotation *notes, struct perf_evsel *evsel)
>>> +{
>>> +       int i;
>>> +       const char *color;
>>> +       double percent, max_percent = 0.0;
>>> +
>>> +       for (i = 0; i < cl->nr_matched_dl; i++)
>>> +               code_line__sum_samples(cl, cl->matched_dl[i], notes, evsel);
>>> +
>>> +       for (i = 0; i < nr_events; i++) {
>>> +               percent = cl->samples_sum[i].percent;
>>> +               color = get_percent_color(percent);
>>> +               if (max_percent < percent)
>>> +                       max_percent = percent;
>>> +
>>> +               if (symbol_conf.show_total_period)
>>> +                       color_fprintf(stdout, color, " %7" PRIu64,
>>> +                                     cl->samples_sum[i].nr);
>>> +               else
>>> +                       color_fprintf(stdout, color, " %7.2f", percent);
>>> +       }
>>> +       color = get_percent_color(max_percent);
>>> +       color_fprintf(stdout, color, " : %d     %s\n",
>>> +                     cl->line_nr, cl->line);
>>> +}
>>> +
>>> +static int code_line__match_with_dl(struct symbol *sym, struct map *map,
>>> +                                   struct code_line *cl)
>>> +{
>>> +       int nr_dl = 0;
>>> +       size_t allocated = sizeof(struct disasm_line **);
>>
>> I don't like the name 'allocated'.  It's a size of a pointer to
>> disasm_line - so should be single "*" not "**" IMHO.  What about just
>> 'sizeof_dl'?
>>

I think you are right, will change it.

>>
>>> +       u64 start = map__rip_2objdump(map, sym->start);
>>> +       struct annotation *notes = symbol__annotation(sym);
>>> +       struct disasm_line *pos, **matched_dl = zalloc(allocated);
>>
>> You can simply initialize the 'matched_dl' to NULL ...
>>
>>> +
>>> +       if (!matched_dl)
>>> +               return -1;
>>> +
>>> +       list_for_each_entry(pos, &notes->src->source, node) {
>>> +               int line_nr;
>>> +               u64 offset;
>>> +               char *srcline;
>>> +
>>> +               if (pos->offset == -1)
>>> +                       continue;
>>> +
>>> +               offset = pos->offset + start;
>>> +               srcline = get_srcline(map->dso, offset, NULL, false, true);
>>> +
>>> +               if (parse_srcline(srcline, NULL, &line_nr) < 0)
>>> +                       continue;
>>> +
>>> +               if (line_nr == cl->line_nr) {
>>> +                       if (nr_dl > 0) {
>>> +                               struct disasm_line **tmp =
>>> +                                       realloc(matched_dl, allocated * (nr_dl + 1));
>>
>> ... since realloc() can handle NULL.  So the if statement is not needed.
>>

I got it.

>> Also I think the srcline might be from a different source file.  You'd
>> be better checking the filename as well.

Yep, I found this problem on the case Milian told me..
will fix it.

>>
>>> +
>>> +                               if (!tmp) {
>>> +                                       free(matched_dl);
>>> +                                       return -1;
>>> +                               }
>>> +                               matched_dl = tmp;
>>> +                       }
>>> +                       matched_dl[nr_dl++] = pos;
>>> +               }
>>> +
>>> +               if (nr_dl && (line_nr != cl->line_nr))
>>> +                       break;
>>
>> Hmm.. you seem to assume that the disasm lines having a same srcline
>> is contiguous.  But it would not be true for an optimized code..

Ah, my fault, I'll also modify it.

>>
>>
>>> +       }
>>> +
>>> +       cl->matched_dl = matched_dl;
>>> +       cl->nr_matched_dl = nr_dl;
>>> +       return 0;
>>> +}
>>> +
>>> +static struct code_line *code_line__new(char *line, int linenr, int nr_events)
>>> +{
>>> +       struct code_line *cl = zalloc(sizeof(*cl));
>>> +
>>> +       if (!cl)
>>> +               return NULL;
>>> +
>>> +       cl->line_nr = linenr;
>>> +       cl->line = strdup(line);
>>
>> This also can fail.
>>

Okey, will add if statement for the fail case.

>>> +       cl->samples_sum =
>>> +               zalloc(sizeof(struct disasm_line_samples) * nr_events);
>>> +       if (!cl->samples_sum)
>>> +               zfree(&cl);
>>> +
>>> +       return cl;
>>> +}
>>> +
>>> +static int source_code__collect(struct symbol *sym, struct map *map,
>>> +                               struct source_code *code, char *path,
>>> +                               int start_linenr, int end_linenr)
>>> +{
>>> +       int ret = -1, linenr = 0;
>>> +       char *line = NULL, *parsed_line;
>>> +       size_t len;
>>> +       FILE *file;
>>> +       struct code_line *cl;
>>> +
>>> +       file = fopen(path, "r");
>>> +       if (!file)
>>> +               return -1;
>>> +
>>> +       if (srcline_full_filename)
>>> +               code->path = strdup(path);
>>> +       else
>>> +               code->path = strdup(basename(path));
>>> +
>>> +       INIT_LIST_HEAD(&code->lines);
>>> +       while (!feof(file)) {
>>> +               if (getline(&line, &len, file) < 0)
>>> +                       goto out_err;
>>> +
>>> +               if (++linenr < start_linenr)
>>> +                       continue;
>>> +
>>> +               parsed_line = rtrim(line);
>>> +               cl = code_line__new(parsed_line, linenr, code->nr_events);
>>> +               if (!cl)
>>> +                       goto out_err;
>>> +
>>> +               if (code_line__match_with_dl(sym, map, cl) < 0)
>>> +                       goto out_err;
>>> +
>>> +               list_add_tail(&cl->node, &code->lines);
>>> +               if (linenr == end_linenr) {
>>> +                       ret = 0;
>>> +                       goto out;
>>> +               }
>>> +       }
>>> +out_err:
>>> +       code_lines__free(&code->lines);
>>> +out:
>>> +       free(line);
>>> +       fclose(file);
>>> +       return ret;
>>> +}
>>> +
>>> +static int symbol__get_source_code(struct symbol *sym, struct map *map,
>>> +                                  struct perf_evsel *evsel)
>>> +{
>>> +       int start_linenr, end_linenr, ret = -1;
>>> +       char *path, *start_srcline = NULL, *end_srcline = NULL;
>>> +       u64 start = map__rip_2objdump(map, sym->start);
>>> +       u64 end = map__rip_2objdump(map, sym->end - 1);
>>> +       struct annotation *notes = symbol__annotation(sym);
>>> +       struct source_code *code;
>>> +
>>> +       if (map->dso->symsrc_filename) {
>>> +               bool tmp = srcline_full_filename;
>>> +
>>> +               srcline_full_filename = true;
>>> +               start_srcline = get_srcline(map->dso, start, NULL, false, true);
>>> +               end_srcline = get_srcline(map->dso, end, NULL, false, true);
>>
>> I'm not sure it's guaranteed that the last instruction is always at
>> the last line of the source code.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Namhyung
>>
>>

Understood the case you said.
Hum.. I thought a simple way but I'm not sure that it is good.

Is it nice to find a last line number
after collecting each srcline info by get_srcline()
with all disas lines for a symbol(function) ?

What do you think about the way getting the last line number
of the source code file ? Are there other workarounds ?


Thanks,
Taeung

>>> +               srcline_full_filename = tmp;
>>> +       } else
>>> +               return -1;
>>> +
>>> +       if (parse_srcline(start_srcline, &path, &start_linenr) < 0)
>>> +               goto out;
>>> +       if (parse_srcline(end_srcline, &path, &end_linenr) < 0)
>>> +               goto out;
>>> +
>>> +       code = zalloc(sizeof(struct source_code));
>>> +       if (code == NULL)
>>> +               goto out;
>>> +
>>> +       if (perf_evsel__is_group_event(evsel))
>>> +               code->nr_events = evsel->nr_members;
>>> +       else
>>> +               code->nr_events = 1;
>>> +
>>> +       /* To roughly read a function header */
>>> +       if (start_linenr > 4)
>>> +               start_linenr -= 4;
>>> +       else
>>> +               start_linenr = 1;
>>> +
>>> +       if (source_code__collect(sym, map, code, path, start_linenr,
>>> +                                end_linenr) < 0) {
>>> +               zfree(&code);
>>> +               goto out;
>>> +       }
>>> +
>>> +       ret = 0;
>>> +       notes->src->code = code;
>>> +out:
>>> +       free_srcline(start_srcline);
>>> +       free_srcline(end_srcline);
>>> +       return ret;
>>> +}
>>> +
>>>   int symbol__disassemble(struct symbol *sym, struct map *map,
>>>                          const char *arch_name, size_t privsize,
>>>                          struct arch **parch)
>>> @@ -1509,7 +1780,6 @@ int symbol__disassemble(struct symbol *sym, struct map *map,
>>>
>>>          if (nline == 0)
>>>                  pr_err("No output from %s\n", command);
>>> -
>>>          /*
>>>           * kallsyms does not have symbol sizes so there may a nop at the end.
>>>           * Remove it.
>>> @@ -1768,6 +2038,7 @@ int symbol__annotate_printf(struct symbol *sym, struct map *map,
>>>          struct sym_hist *h = annotation__histogram(notes, evsel->idx);
>>>          struct disasm_line *pos, *queue = NULL;
>>>          u64 start = map__rip_2objdump(map, sym->start);
>>> +       bool src_code_only = false;
>>>          int printed = 2, queue_len = 0;
>>>          int more = 0;
>>>          u64 len;
>>> @@ -1788,8 +2059,14 @@ int symbol__annotate_printf(struct symbol *sym, struct map *map,
>>>          if (perf_evsel__is_group_event(evsel))
>>>                  width *= evsel->nr_members;
>>>
>>> -       graph_dotted_len = printf(" %-*.*s|     Source code & Disassembly of %s for %s (%" PRIu64 " samples)\n",
>>> -              width, width, "Percent", d_filename, evsel_name, h->sum);
>>> +       if (symbol_conf.annotate_src_only && notes->src->has_src_code)
>>> +               src_code_only = true;
>>> +
>>> +       graph_dotted_len = printf(" %-*.*s|     %s of %s for %s (%" PRIu64 " samples)\n",
>>> +                                 width, width, "Percent",
>>> +                                 src_code_only ? "Source code" : "Source code & Disassembly",
>>> +                                 src_code_only ? notes->src->code->path : d_filename,
>>> +                                 evsel_name, h->sum);
>>>
>>>          printf("%-*.*s----\n",
>>>                 graph_dotted_len, graph_dotted_len, graph_dotted_line);
>>> @@ -1797,6 +2074,16 @@ int symbol__annotate_printf(struct symbol *sym, struct map *map,
>>>          if (verbose > 0)
>>>                  symbol__annotate_hits(sym, evsel);
>>>
>>> +       if (src_code_only) {
>>> +               struct source_code *code = notes->src->code;
>>> +               struct code_line *cl;
>>> +
>>> +               list_for_each_entry(cl, &code->lines, node)
>>> +                       source_code__print(cl, code->nr_events, notes, evsel);
>>> +
>>> +               goto out;
>>> +       }
>>> +
>>>          list_for_each_entry(pos, &notes->src->source, node) {
>>>                  if (context && queue == NULL) {
>>>                          queue = pos;
>>> @@ -1833,7 +2120,8 @@ int symbol__annotate_printf(struct symbol *sym, struct map *map,
>>>                          break;
>>>                  }
>>>          }
>>> -
>>> +out:
>>> +       printf("\n");
>>>          free(filename);
>>>
>>>          return more;
>>> @@ -1903,6 +2191,7 @@ int symbol__tty_annotate(struct symbol *sym, struct map *map,
>>>                           bool full_paths, int min_pcnt, int max_lines)
>>>   {
>>>          struct dso *dso = map->dso;
>>> +       struct annotation *notes = symbol__annotation(sym);
>>>          struct rb_root source_line = RB_ROOT;
>>>          u64 len;
>>>
>>> @@ -1918,11 +2207,17 @@ int symbol__tty_annotate(struct symbol *sym, struct map *map,
>>>                  print_summary(&source_line, dso->long_name);
>>>          }
>>>
>>> +       if (symbol_conf.annotate_src_only &&
>>> +           symbol__get_source_code(sym, map, evsel) == 0)
>>> +               notes->src->has_src_code = true;
>>> +
>>>          symbol__annotate_printf(sym, map, evsel, full_paths,
>>>                                  min_pcnt, max_lines, 0);
>>>          if (print_lines)
>>>                  symbol__free_source_line(sym, len);
>>>
>>> +       if (notes->src->has_src_code)
>>> +               symbol__free_source_code(sym);
>>>          disasm__purge(&symbol__annotation(sym)->src->source);
>>>
>>>          return 0;
>>> diff --git a/tools/perf/util/annotate.h b/tools/perf/util/annotate.h
>>> index 2105503..3513807 100644
>>> --- a/tools/perf/util/annotate.h
>>> +++ b/tools/perf/util/annotate.h
>>> @@ -56,6 +56,11 @@ int ins__scnprintf(struct ins *ins, char *bf, size_t size, struct ins_operands *
>>>
>>>   struct annotation;
>>>
>>> +struct disasm_line_samples {
>>> +       double          percent;
>>> +       u64             nr;
>>> +};
>>> +
>>>   struct disasm_line {
>>>          struct list_head    node;
>>>          s64                 offset;
>>> @@ -95,6 +100,21 @@ struct cyc_hist {
>>>          u16     reset;
>>>   };
>>>
>>> +struct code_line {
>>> +       struct list_head    node;
>>> +       int                 line_nr;
>>> +       char                *line;
>>> +       int                 nr_matched_dl;
>>> +       struct disasm_line  **matched_dl;
>>> +       struct disasm_line_samples *samples_sum;
>>> +};
>>> +
>>> +struct source_code {
>>> +       char             *path;
>>> +       int              nr_events;
>>> +       struct list_head lines;
>>> +};
>>> +
>>>   struct source_line_samples {
>>>          double          percent;
>>>          double          percent_sum;
>>> @@ -123,7 +143,9 @@ struct source_line {
>>>    */
>>>   struct annotated_source {
>>>          struct list_head   source;
>>> +       struct source_code *code;
>>>          struct source_line *lines;
>>> +       bool               has_src_code;
>>>          int                nr_histograms;
>>>          size_t             sizeof_sym_hist;
>>>          struct cyc_hist    *cycles_hist;
>>> diff --git a/tools/perf/util/symbol.c b/tools/perf/util/symbol.c
>>> index e7a98db..ca8dc6e 100644
>>> --- a/tools/perf/util/symbol.c
>>> +++ b/tools/perf/util/symbol.c
>>> @@ -38,6 +38,7 @@ struct symbol_conf symbol_conf = {
>>>          .use_modules            = true,
>>>          .try_vmlinux_path       = true,
>>>          .annotate_src           = true,
>>> +       .annotate_src_only      = false,
>>>          .demangle               = true,
>>>          .demangle_kernel        = false,
>>>          .cumulate_callchain     = true,
>>> diff --git a/tools/perf/util/symbol.h b/tools/perf/util/symbol.h
>>> index 41ebba9..a7ba20b 100644
>>> --- a/tools/perf/util/symbol.h
>>> +++ b/tools/perf/util/symbol.h
>>> @@ -108,6 +108,7 @@ struct symbol_conf {
>>>                          kptr_restrict,
>>>                          annotate_asm_raw,
>>>                          annotate_src,
>>> +                       annotate_src_only,
>>>                          event_group,
>>>                          demangle,
>>>                          demangle_kernel,
>>> --
>>> 2.7.4
>>>

Powered by blists - more mailing lists