linux-kernel - Re: early x86 unseeded randomness

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Message-ID: <20170815080128.GA2288@1wt.eu>
Date:   Tue, 15 Aug 2017 10:01:28 +0200
From:   Willy Tarreau <w@....eu>
To:     Ingo Molnar <mingo@...nel.org>
Cc:     "Theodore Ts'o" <tytso@....edu>, Borislav Petkov <bp@...en8.de>,
        Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>,
        x86-ml <x86@...nel.org>, "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@...c4.com>,
        lkml <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: early x86 unseeded randomness

On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 09:42:54AM +0200, Ingo Molnar wrote:
> 
> * Willy Tarreau <w@....eu> wrote:
> 
> > Nowadays we could use similar methods using RDTSC providing more accurate
> > counting. This doesn't provide a lot of entropy of course, given that a
> > 2 GHz machine will at most count 31 bits there. But I tend to think that
> > what matters during early boot is to transform something highly predictable
> > into something unlikely to be predicted (ie: an exploit having to scan 2^31
> > possible addresses will not be really usable). It's also possible to do the
> > same with the PIT0 counter ticking at 18.2 Hz without any correlation with
> > the RTC by the way, and roughly provide 25 more bits. And if you expect
> > that the BIOS has emitted a 800 Hz beep at boot, you could still have a
> > divider of 1491 in PIT2 providing 10 more bits, though with a bit of
> > correlation with PIT0 since they use the same 1.19 MHz source. These
> > methods increase the boot time by up to one second though, but my point
> > here is that when you have nothing it's always a bit better.
> 
> One other thing besides trying to extract entropy via timing would be to utilize 
> more of the machine's environment in seeding the random number generator.
> 
> For example on x86 the E820 table is available very early on and its addresses 
> could be mixed into the random pool. An external attacker often would not know the 
> precise hardware configuration.
> 
> Likewise the boot parameters string could be mixed into the initial random pool as 
> well - and this way distributions could create per installation seed simply by 
> appending a random number to the boot string.
> 
> Both methods should be very fast and robust.

Definitely, just like a simple MD5SUM on the first MB of RAM including
the BIOS, and on the CMOS RAM contents, which also differ quite a bit
between systems.

Willy