Message-ID: <CAPDyKFr4DgVdKtf=G1vUy=Si0nSTECsrWoqB+z9UCQHS8DuwcQ@mail.gmail.com>
Date:   Tue, 14 Nov 2017 17:07:59 +0100
From:   Ulf Hansson <ulf.hansson@...aro.org>
To:     "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rafael@...nel.org>
Cc:     "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@...ysocki.net>,
        Linux PM <linux-pm@...r.kernel.org>,
        Bjorn Helgaas <bhelgaas@...gle.com>,
        Alan Stern <stern@...land.harvard.edu>,
        Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>,
        LKML <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        Linux ACPI <linux-acpi@...r.kernel.org>,
        Linux PCI <linux-pci@...r.kernel.org>,
        Linux Documentation <linux-doc@...r.kernel.org>,
        Mika Westerberg <mika.westerberg@...ux.intel.com>,
        Andy Shevchenko <andriy.shevchenko@...ux.intel.com>,
        Kevin Hilman <khilman@...nel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 1/6] PM / core: Add LEAVE_SUSPENDED driver flag

On 11 November 2017 at 00:45, Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael@...nel.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 10, 2017 at 10:09 AM, Ulf Hansson <ulf.hansson@...aro.org> wrote:
>> On 8 November 2017 at 14:25, Rafael J. Wysocki <rjw@...ysocki.net> wrote:
>>> From: Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael.j.wysocki@...el.com>
>>>
>>> Define and document a new driver flag, DPM_FLAG_LEAVE_SUSPENDED, to
>>> instruct the PM core and middle-layer (bus type, PM domain, etc.)
>>> code that it is desirable to leave the device in runtime suspend
>>> after system-wide transitions to the working state (for example,
>>> the device may be slow to resume and it may be better to avoid
>>> resuming it right away).
>>>
>>> Generally, the middle-layer code involved in the handling of the
>>> device is expected to indicate to the PM core whether or not the
>>> device may be left in suspend with the help of the device's
>>> power.may_skip_resume status bit.  That has to happen in the "noirq"
>>> phase of the preceding system suspend (or analogous) transition.
>>> The middle layer is then responsible for handling the device as
>>> appropriate in its "noirq" resume callback which is executed
>>> regardless of whether or not the device may be left suspended, but
>>> the other resume callbacks (except for ->complete) will be skipped
>>> automatically by the core if the device really can be left in
>>> suspend.
>>
>> I don't understand the reason to why you need to skip invoking resume
>> callbacks to achieve this behavior, could you elaborate on that?
>
> The reason why it is done this way is because that takes less code and
> is easier (or at least less error-prone, because it avoids repeating
> patterns in middle layers).
>
> Note that the callbacks only may be skipped by the core if the middle
> layer has set power.skip_resume for the device (or if the core is
> handling it in patch [5/6], but that's one more step ahead still).
>
>> Couldn't the PM domain or the middle-layer instead decide what to do?
>
> They still can, the whole thing is a total opt-in.
>
> But to be constructive, do you have any specific examples in mind?

See more below.

>
>> To me it sounds a bit prone to errors by skipping callbacks from the
>> PM core, and I wonder if the general driver author will be able to
>> understand how to use this flag properly.
>
> This has nothing to do with general driver authors and I'm not sure
> what you mean here and where you are going with this.

Let me elaborate.

My general goal is that I want to make it easier (or as easy as
possible) for the general driver author to deploy runtime PM and
system-wide PM support - in an optimized manner. Therefore, I am
pondering over the solution you picked in this series, trying to
understand how it fits into those aspects.

Particular I am a bit worried from a complexity point of view, about
the part with skipping callbacks from the PM core. We have observed
some difficulties with the direct_complete path (i2c dw driver), which
is based on a similar approach as this one.

Additionally, in this case, to trigger skipping of callbacks to
happen, first, drivers needs to inform the middle-layer, second, the
middle layer acts on that information and then informs the PM core,
then in the third step, the PM core can decide what to do. It doesn't
sound straight-forward.

I guess I need to be convinced that this new approach is going to be
better than the the direct_complete path, so it somehow can replace it
along the road. Otherwise, we may end up just having yet another way
of skipping callbacks in the PM core and I don't like that.

Of course, I also realize this hole thing is opt-in, so nothing will
break and we are all good. :-)

>
>> That said, as the series don't include any changes for drivers making
>> use of the flag, could please fold in such change as it would provide
>> a more complete picture?
>
> I've already done so, see https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/10007349/
>
> IMHO it's not really useful to drag this stuff (which doesn't change
> BTW) along with every iteration of the core patches.

Well, to me it's useful because it shows how these flags can/will be used.

Anyway, I thought you scraped that patch and was working on a new
version. I will have a look then.

[...]

>>>   * device_resume_noirq - Execute a "noirq resume" callback for given device.
>>>   * @dev: Device to handle.
>>>   * @state: PM transition of the system being carried out.
>>> @@ -575,6 +587,12 @@ static int device_resume_noirq(struct de
>>>         error = dpm_run_callback(callback, dev, state, info);
>>>         dev->power.is_noirq_suspended = false;
>>>
>>> +       if (dev_pm_may_skip_resume(dev)) {
>>> +               pm_runtime_set_suspended(dev);
>>
>> According to the doc, the DPM_FLAG_LEAVE_SUSPENDED intends to leave
>> the device in runtime suspend state during system resume.
>> However, here you are actually trying to change its runtime PM state to that.
>
> So the doc needs to be fixed. :-)

Yep.

>
> But I'm guessing that this just is a misunderstanding and you mean the
> phrase "it may be desirable to leave some devices in runtime suspend
> after [...]".  Yes, it is talking about "runtime suspend", but
> actually "runtime suspend" is the only kind of "suspend" you can leave
> a device in after a system transition to the working state.  It never
> says that the device must have been suspended before the preceding
> system transition into a sleep state started.

My point is, it's isn't obvious why you need to make sure the device's
runtime PM status is set to "RPM_SUSPENDED" when leaving the resume
noirq phase. You did explain that somewhat above, thanks!

Perhaps you could fold in some of that information into the doc as well?

>
>> Moreover, you should check the return value from
>> pm_runtime_set_suspended().
>
> This is in "noirq", so failures of that are meaningless here.
>
>> Then I wonder, what should you do when it fails here?
>>
>> Perhaps a better idea is to do this in the noirq suspend phase,
>> because it allows you to bail out in case pm_runtime_set_suspended()
>> fails.
>
> This doesn't make sense, sorry.

What do you mean by "failures of that are meaningless here."?

I was suggesting, instead of calling pm_runtime_set_suspended() in the
noirq *resume* phase, why can't you do that in the noirq *suspend*
phase?

In the noirq *suspend* phase it's not too late to deal with errors!? Or is it?

[...]

Kind regards
Uffe

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