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Message-ID: <5A0D15A9.3090706@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 13:35:53 +0900
From: Hyunchul Lee <hyc.lee@...il.com>
To: Jaegeuk Kim <jaegeuk@...nel.org>, Chao Yu <yuchao0@...wei.com>
CC: linux-f2fs-devel@...ts.sourceforge.net,
linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, kernel-team@....com,
Hyunchul Lee <cheol.lee@....com>, Chao Yu <chao@...nel.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 0/2] apply write hints to select the type of segments
On 11/16/2017 12:58 PM, Jaegeuk Kim wrote:
> On 11/16, Chao Yu wrote:
>> On 2017/11/16 8:56, Hyunchul Lee wrote:
>>>
>>> On 11/16/2017 01:27 AM, Jaegeuk Kim wrote:
>>>> On 11/14, Chao Yu wrote:
>>>>> On 2017/11/14 12:20, Jaegeuk Kim wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/13, Hyunchul Lee wrote:
>>>>>>> On 11/13/2017 10:59 AM, Chao Yu wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2017/11/13 9:35, Hyunchul Lee wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 11/13/2017 10:26 AM, Chao Yu wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2017/11/13 8:24, Hyunchul Lee wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/10/2017 03:42 PM, Chao Yu wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2017/11/10 8:23, Hyunchul Lee wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello, Chao
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/09/2017 06:12 PM, Chao Yu wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2017/11/9 13:51, Hyunchul Lee wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Hyunchul Lee <cheol.lee@....com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Using write hints[1], applications can inform the life time of the data
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> written to devices. and this[2] reported that the write hints patch
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> decreased writes in NAND by 25%.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This hints help F2FS to determine the followings.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) the segment types where the data will be written.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) the hints that will be passed down to devices with the data of segments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This patch set implements the first mapping from write hints to segment types
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as shown below.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hints segment type
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- ------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WRITE_LIFE_SHORT CURSEG_COLD_DATA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WRITE_LIFE_EXTREME CURSEG_HOT_DATA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others CURSEG_WARM_DATA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The F2FS poliy for hot/cold seperation has precedence over this hints, And
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hints are not applied in in-place update.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Could we change to disable IPU if file/inode write hint is existing?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am afraid that this makes side effects. for example, this could cause
>>>>>>>>>>>>> out-of-place updates even when there are not enough free segments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can write the patch that handles these situations. But I wonder
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that this is required, and I am not sure which IPU polices can be disabled.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, As I replied in another thread, I think IPU just affects filesystem
>>>>>>>>>>>> hot/cold separating, rather than this feature. So I think it will be okay
>>>>>>>>>>>> to not consider it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Before the second mapping is implemented, write hints are not passed down
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to devices. Because it is better that the data of a segment have the same
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hint.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [1]: c75b1d9421f80f4143e389d2d50ddfc8a28c8c35
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [2]: https://lwn.net/Articles/726477/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Could you write a patch to support passing write hint to block layer for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> buffered writes as below commit:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0127251c45ae ("ext4: add support for passing in write hints for buffered writes")
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sure I will. I wrote it already ;)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cool, ;)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think that datas from the same segment should be passed down with the same
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hint, and the following mapping is reasonable. I wonder what is your opinion
>>>>>>>>>>>>> about it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> segment type hints
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------ -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> CURSEG_COLD_DATA WRITE_LIFE_EXTREME
>>>>>>>>>>>>> CURSEG_HOT_DATA WRITE_LIFE_SHORT
>>>>>>>>>>>>> CURSEG_COLD_NODE WRITE_LIFE_NORMAL
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> We have WRITE_LIFE_LONG defined rather than WRITE_LIFE_NORMAL in fs.h?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> CURSEG_HOT_NODE WRITE_LIFE_MEDIUM
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> As I know, in scenario of cell phone, data of meta_inode is hottest, then hot
>>>>>>>>>>>> data, warm node, and cold node should be coldest. So I suggested we can define
>>>>>>>>>>>> as below:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> META_DATA WRITE_LIFE_SHORT
>>>>>>>>>>>> HOT_DATA & WARM_NODE WRITE_LIFE_MEDIUM
>>>>>>>>>>>> HOT_NODE & WARM_DATA WRITE_LIFE_LONG
>>>>>>>>>>>> COLD_NODE & COLD_DATA WRITE_LIFE_EXTREME
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I agree, But I am not sure that assigning the same hint to a node and data
>>>>>>>>>>> segment is good. Because NVMe is likely to write them in the same erase
>>>>>>>>>>> block if they have the same hint.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If we do not give the hint, they can still be written to the same erase block,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I mean it's possible to write them to the same erase block. :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> right? it will not be worse?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If the hint is not given, I think that they could be written to
>>>>>>>>> the same erase block, or not. But if we give the same hint, they are written
>>>>>>>>> to the same block.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> IMO, Only if underlying device can support more hint type or opened channels,
>>>>>>>> and actual temperature of data segment and node segment is quite different, we
>>>>>>>> can separate them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Okay, If Jaegeuk Kim agrees with this, I will submit the patch that
>>>>>>> implements your proposed mapping.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How about this? We'd better to split data and node blocks as much as possible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> segment type hints
>>>>>> ------------ -----
>>>>>> COLD_NODE & COLD_DATA WRITE_LIFE_NONE
>>>>>
>>>>> WRITE_LIFE_NONE means there is no hints about write life time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Shouldn't we define COLD_NODE & COLD_DATA as WRITE_LIFE_EXTERME?
>>>>
>>>> The assumption would be to split different types of blocks by flash firmware,
>>>> so I think we can use WRITE_LIFE_NONE as a type as well.
>>>>
>>>
>>> WRITE_LIFE_NONE means that no stream id is specified. It equals WRITE_LIFE_NOT_SET.
>>
>> Rgith, I just saw nvme implementation:
>>
>> nvme_assign_write_stream
>>
>> enum rw_hint streamid = req->write_hint;
>>
>> if (streamid == WRITE_LIFE_NOT_SET || streamid == WRITE_LIFE_NONE)
>> streamid = 0;
>> else {
>> streamid--;
>> ...
>>
>>> So I think that we can define WARM_DATA as WRITE_LIFE_NONE, and
>>> COLD_NODE & COLD_DATA as WRITE_LIFE_EXTREME.
>
> What's the point?
>
> segment type hints streamid
> ------------- ----- -------
> COLD_NODE & COLD_DATA WRITE_LIFE_NONE 0
> WARM_DATA WRITE_LIFE_EXTERME 4
> HOT_NODE & WARM_NODE WRITE_LIFE_LONG 3
> HOT_DATA WRITE_LIFE_MEDIUM 2
> META_DATA WRITE_LIFE_SHORT 1
>
> So, I don't think something is wrong. Again, I don't care about its hotness
> given to the naming, but do care how to split different types of blocks with
> different stream ids. Exceptions would be giving _SHORT or _MEDIUM which are
> likely to be latency-critical, since I guess firmware may be able to store them
> into SLC buffer.
>
> Am I missing that _NONE has another meaning?
>
What I am worried about is that datas with no hint have WRITE_LIFE_NOT_SET(id 0).
If block devices have swap partitions and anothor file systems, cold datas could
be mixed with datas from that. Does this seems way too much?
And I think that stream id 0 means disabling stream directives.
Becasue NVME_RW_DTYPE_STREAMS is clear.
Thanks.
> Thanks,
>
>>
>> I think that would be better.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>>> WARM_DATA WRITE_LIFE_EXTERME
>>>>>> HOT_NODE & WARM_NODE WRITE_LIFE_LONG
>>>>>> HOT_DATA WRITE_LIFE_MEDIUM
>>>>>> META_DATA WRITE_LIFE_SHORT
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you for comments ;)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am not sure ;)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> others WRITE_LIFE_NONE
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hyunchul Lee (2):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> f2fs: apply write hints to select the type of segments for buffered
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> write
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> f2fs: apply write hints to select the type of segment for direct write
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fs/f2fs/data.c | 101 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++----------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fs/f2fs/f2fs.h | 1 +
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fs/f2fs/segment.c | 14 +++++++-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3 files changed, 74 insertions(+), 42 deletions(-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> .
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> .
>>>
>
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