linux-kernel - Re: [PATCH 06/18] x86, barrier: stop speculation for failed access

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Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1801062038510.2376@nanos>
Date:   Sat, 6 Jan 2018 20:41:34 +0100 (CET)
From:   Thomas Gleixner <tglx@...utronix.de>
To:     Alexei Starovoitov <alexei.starovoitov@...il.com>
cc:     Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@...el.com>,
        Alan Cox <gnomes@...rguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
        Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>,
        Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        linux-arch@...r.kernel.org, Andi Kleen <ak@...ux.intel.com>,
        Arnd Bergmann <arnd@...db.de>,
        Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>,
        Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>,
        Netdev <netdev@...r.kernel.org>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@...hat.com>,
        "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@...or.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 06/18] x86, barrier: stop speculation for failed
 access_ok

On Sat, 6 Jan 2018, Alexei Starovoitov wrote:

> On Sat, Jan 06, 2018 at 10:54:27AM -0800, Dan Williams wrote:
> > On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 10:39 AM, Alexei Starovoitov
> > <alexei.starovoitov@...il.com> wrote:
> > [..]
> > >> retpoline is variant-2, this patch series is about variant-1.
> > >
> > > that's exactly the point. Don't slow down the kernel with lfences
> > > to solve variant 1. retpoline for 2 is ok from long term kernel
> > > viability perspective.
> > >
> > 
> > Setting aside that we still need to measure the impact of these
> > changes the end result will still be nospec_array_ptr() sprinkled in
> > various locations. So can we save the debate about what's inside that
> > macro on various architectures and at least proceed with annotating
> > the problematic locations? Perhaps we can go a step further and have a
> > config option to switch between the clever array_access() approach
> > from Linus that might be fine depending on the compiler, and the
> > cpu-vendor-recommended not to speculate implementation of
> > nospec_array_ptr().
> 
> recommended by panicing vendors who had no better ideas?
> Ohh, speculation is exploitable, let's stop speculation.
> Instead of fighting it we can safely steer it where it doesn't leak
> kernel data. AND approach is doing exactly that.

For one particular architecture and that's not a solution for generic
code.

Aside of that I fundamentally disagree with your purely performance
optimized argumentation. We need to make sure that we have a solution which
kills the problem safely and then take it from there. Correctness first,
optimization later is the rule for this. Better safe than sorry.

Thanks,

	tglx