Message-ID: <30ee67f2-b375-4957-44ff-c663095b74de@xs4all.nl>
Date:   Wed, 31 Jan 2018 17:16:16 +0100
From:   Hans Verkuil <hverkuil@...all.nl>
To:     Tomasz Figa <tfiga@...omium.org>
Cc:     Alexandre Courbot <acourbot@...omium.org>,
        Mauro Carvalho Chehab <mchehab@...nel.org>,
        Laurent Pinchart <laurent.pinchart@...asonboard.com>,
        Pawel Osciak <posciak@...omium.org>,
        Marek Szyprowski <m.szyprowski@...sung.com>,
        Sakari Ailus <sakari.ailus@...ux.intel.com>,
        Gustavo Padovan <gustavo.padovan@...labora.com>,
        Linux Media Mailing List <linux-media@...r.kernel.org>,
        linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 0/8] [media] Request API, take three

On 01/31/2018 10:46 AM, Tomasz Figa wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 5:47 PM, Hans Verkuil <hverkuil@...all.nl> wrote:
>> On 01/31/2018 09:10 AM, Tomasz Figa wrote:
>>> Hi Hans,
>>>
>>> Sorry for joining the party late.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 4:50 PM, Hans Verkuil <hverkuil@...all.nl> wrote:
>>>> On 01/30/2018 07:31 AM, Alexandre Courbot wrote:
>>>>> Hi Hans,
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 8:21 PM, Hans Verkuil <hverkuil@...all.nl> wrote:
>>>>>> On 01/26/2018 07:02 AM, Alexandre Courbot wrote:
>>>>>>> Howdy. Here is your bi-weekly request API redesign! ;)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Again, this is a simple version that only implements the flow of requests,
>>>>>>> without applying controls. The intent is to get an agreement on a base to work
>>>>>>> on, since the previous versions went straight back to the redesign board.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Highlights of this version:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * As requested by Hans, request-bound buffers are now passed earlier to drivers,
>>>>>>> as early as the request itself is submitted. Doing it earlier is not be useful
>>>>>>> since the driver would not know the state of the request, and thus cannot do
>>>>>>> anything with the buffer. Drivers are now responsible for applying request
>>>>>>> parameters themselves.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * As a consequence, there is no such thing as a "request queue" anymore. The
>>>>>>> flow of buffers decides the order in which requests are processed. Individual
>>>>>>> devices of the same pipeline can implement synchronization if needed, but this
>>>>>>> is beyond this first version.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * VB2 code is still a bit shady. Some of it will interfere with the fences
>>>>>>> series, so I am waiting for the latter to land to do it properly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * Requests that are not yet submitted effectively act as fences on the buffers
>>>>>>> they own, resulting in the buffer queue being blocked until the request is
>>>>>>> submitted. An alternate design would be to only block the
>>>>>>> not-submitted-request's buffer and let further buffers pass before it, but since
>>>>>>> buffer order is becoming increasingly important I have decided to just block the
>>>>>>> queue. This is open to discussion though.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think we should mess with the order.
>>>>>
>>>>> Agreed, let's keep it that way then.
>>>>>
>>>
>>> I'm not sure I'm following here. Does it mean (quoting Alex):
>>>
>>> a) "Requests that are not yet submitted effectively act as fences on the buffers
>>>     they own, resulting in the buffer queue being blocked until the request is
>>>     submitted."
>>>
>>> b) "block the not-submitted-request's buffer and let further buffers
>>> pass before it"
>>>
>>> or neither?
>>>
>>> Hans, could you clarify what you think is the right behavior here?
>>
>> I think I misread the text. Alexandre, buffers in not-yet-submitted requests
>> should not act as fences. They are similar to buffers that are prepared
>> through the VIDIOC_PREPARE_BUF call. They are just sitting there and won't
>> be in the queue until someone calls QBUF.
>>
>> It's the same for not-yet-submitted requests: the buffers don't act as
>> fences until the request is submitted.
> 
> Thanks for explanation.
> 
> To be 100% sure, that would mean that a buffer is added into the vb2
> queue as soon as the request that includes related QBUF call is
> queued, right?

Correct.

> 
>>
>> Interesting related questions: how does VIDIOC_PREPARE_BUF interact with
>> a request? What happens if a buffer is added to a non-yet-submitted request
>> and userspace calls VIDIOC_QBUF with that same buffer but with no request?
>>
>> This all needs to be defined.
> 
> That sounds like a failure to me. Actually very similar to trying to
> call QBUF twice on the same buffer, without dequeuing it. What would
> be the behavior in such case?

I would say that it makes no sense to use VIDIOC_PREPARE_BUF with a request
and should be considered an error. Although it is perfectly fine IMHO to
queue a previously prepared buffer to a request.

Calling QBUF for a buffer that is added to a not-yet-submitted request is an
error. I would expect something like -EBUSY to be returned.

> 
>>
>>>
>>>>>>> * For the codec usecase, I have experimented a bit marking CAPTURE buffers with
>>>>>>> the request FD that produced them (vim2m acts that way). This seems to work
>>>>>>> well, however FDs are process-local and could be closed before the CAPTURE
>>>>>>> buffer is dequeued, rendering that information less meaningful, if not
>>>>>>> dangerous.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't follow this. Once the fd is passed to the kernel its refcount should be
>>>>>> increased so the data it represents won't be released if userspace closes the fd.
>>>>>
>>>>> The refcount of the request is increased. The refcount of the FD is
>>>>> not, since it is only a userspace reference to the request.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think that's right. Looking at how dma-buf does this (dma_buf_get in
>>>> dma-buf.c) it calls fget(fd) which increases the fd refcount. In fact, as far as
>>>> I can see the struct dma_buf doesn't have a refcount, it is solely refcounted
>>>> through the fd. That's probably the model you want to follow.
>>>
>>> As far as I can see from the code, fget() on an fd increases a
>>> reference count on the struct file backing the fd. I don't think there
>>> is another level of reference counting of fds themselves - that's why
>>> dup(fd) gives you another fd and you can't call close(fd) on the same
>>> fd two times.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Obviously if userspace closes the fd it cannot do anything with it anymore, but
>>>>>> it shouldn't be 'dangerous' AFAICT.
>>>>>
>>>>> It userspace later gets that closed FD back from a DQBUF call, and
>>>>> decides to use it again, then we would have a problem. I agree that it
>>>>> is userspace responsibility to be careful here, but making things
>>>>> foolproof never hurts.
>>>>
>>>> I think all the issues will go away if you refcount the fd instead of the
>>>> request. It worked well for dma-buf for years.
>>>
>>> I'm confused here. The kernel never returns the same FD for the same
>>> DMA-buf twice. Every time an ioctl is called, which returns a DMA-buf
>>> FD, it creates a new FD.
>>
>> Sorry, where I say 'refcount the fd' I indeed meant 'refcount the file struct'.
>>
>> Looking at the code in the patch series I see:
>>
>> +struct media_request *
>> +media_request_get_from_fd(int fd)
>> +{
>> +       struct file *f;
>> +       struct media_request *req;
>> +
>> +       f = fget(fd);
>> +       if (!f)
>> +               return NULL;
>> +
>> +       /* Not a request FD? */
>> +       if (f->f_op != &request_fops) {
>> +               fput(f);
>> +               return NULL;
>> +       }
>> +
>> +       req = f->private_data;
>> +       media_request_get(req);
>> +       fput(f);
>> +
>> +       return req;
>> +}
>> +EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(media_request_get_from_fd);
>>
>> So this does not refcount the file struct but the request struct, and I think
>> that's wrong. The file struct represents the request struct, and it is the
>> file struct that should be refcounted. So when you give a request_fd to
>> VIDIOC_QBUF, then the refcount should be increased since vb2 now needs to
>> hold on to it. It's what dma-buf does.
>>
>> Now, I agree that if userspace closes the fd before kernelspace is finished
>> with it, then the request_fd returned by VIDIOC_DQBUF is no longer valid.
>> But so what? It's the same with the dma-buf fd. I don't think this is a problem
>> at all.
> 
> Okay, I feel like we're much more on the same page now, thanks for
> clarification. ;)
> 
> I'm still wondering if having the link from-buffer-to-request is the
> most convenient for userspace, though. One possible scenario where I
> think this might be problematic is when the request FD is shared with
> another process, e.g. one process creating the requests, filling them
> in and submitting and separate process dequeuing and handling
> completed requests. In this case, the FD used for queuing the request
> and the FD used for dequeuing the request would be different. Not sure
> how we could handle it.

I don't think this is an issue. The way vb2 works is that whoever allocates
the buffers becomes the owner and only that process can queue and dequeue
buffers. Otherwise an external process could dequeue buffers from underneath
the main process.

So the process that queues the buffers for a request will be the same process
that dequeues them, and the request_fd is always valid for that process.

This is really an already existing limitation.

In other words, you can do this with separate threads but not with separate
processes. And this isn't an issue if you use threads since they use the
same fd.

Good question, though. I had to think carefully about this for a bit.

> An alternative approach that would let us completely avoid this kind
> of unique identifier problem, would bo to have links
> from-request-to-buffers. The process that dequeues the requests would
> then query the dequeued request for the buffers related to it. For
> example, DQBUF could be made symmetric to QBUF with respect to the
> request FD and it would only dequeue buffers related to given request.

Regards,

	Hans

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