Message-ID: <20180220192100.wlrn3c4hnqdmu4zg@redbean>
Date:   Tue, 20 Feb 2018 20:21:03 +0100
From:   Jessica Yu <jeyu@...nel.org>
To:     Matthew Garrett <mjg59@...gle.com>
Cc:     Ben Hutchings <ben@...adent.org.uk>,
        Rusty Russell <rusty@...tcorp.com.au>,
        Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] Make kernel taint on invalid module signatures
 configurable

+++ Matthew Garrett [15/02/18 19:36 +0000]:
>On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 7:25 AM Jessica Yu <jeyu@...nel.org> wrote:
>> I'm still unclear on why a distro would enable CONFIG_MODULE_SIG and
>> then _not_ want to know about unsigned modules.
>
>The same kernel image may be used in situations where the use case benefits
>from enforcement of module signatures and cases where it doesn't -
>distributions don't generally have the resources to ship multiple kernel
>packages with lightly modified configurations.

Ah, OK. So if I'm understanding correctly, you want to use the same kernel
image/configuration but for two different use cases, one where the module
signatures do not matter, and one where they do matter. But the config you
want to use in both use cases would have CONFIG_MODULE_SIG=y and
CONFIG_MODULE_SIG_TAINT=n (to avoid tainting of unsigned/invalidly signed
modules).

This seems convoluted, but only because you're trying to get two
different behaviors for the price of one (config). I.e., trying to get
non-CONFIG_MODULE_SIG behavior despite having it enabled. Normally, if
you have a setup where module signatures don't matter at all, and you
want to avoid the unsigned module taint, then I'd just suggest turning
CONFIG_MODULE_SIG off, because that'd be the most obvious solution,
wouldn't it?  However, in your case you want to keep CONFIG_MODULE_SIG on,
due to distro contraints. But without knowing that, the problem
statement seems contradictory, because if you don't care about
signatures, then you probably wouldn't have CONFIG_MODULE_SIG enabled
in the first place.

In any case, I think I'd be willing to merge it as a module_param made
available under CONFIG_MODULE_SIG=y (rather than as a new separate config
option), while preserving the default behavior of tainting on
unsigned/invalidly signed module loads (so let's keep the param parts of
your patch). I think it makes sense to consider the turning-off-the-taint
param as a behavioral tweak under CONFIG_MODULE_SIG. Then you could turn
off the tainting behavior on the kernel command line, would this sufficient
enough for your use cases?

>>  From what I understand from Ben's post from last year
>> (http://lkml.kernel.org/r/1504044122.4448.24.camel@decadent.org.uk),
>> it sounds like the main issue is that Debian doesn't support their own
>> centralised module signing yet, causing all of their modules to be
>> automatically tainted if they enable CONFIG_MODULE_SIG, and that a new
>> option like this would likely be used as a temporary "fix". Am I
>> understanding correctly?
>
>Not entirely. There's two cases where the current situation causes problems:
>
>1) Distributions that build out of tree kernel modules and don't have
>infrastructure to sign them will end up with kernel taint. That's something
>that can be resolved by implementing that infrastructure.
>2) End-users who build out of tree kernel modules will end up with kernel
>taint and will file bugs. This cannot be fixed but will increase
>distribution load anyway.

I thought these two cases (particularly #2) were the very situations
where distros might find the unsigned module taint useful (especially
in the use case where you do benefit from module signatures). From my
understanding, the unsigned module taint is intended to be useful when
looking at crashes/OOPses, to provide a clear indication of whether or
not a developer could reliably debug the crash, or choose to tread
carefully, because the end-user has loaded an unsigned/out-of-tree
module that wasn't signed/shipped by the distribution. Is the taint
just not useful to distros in this manner anymore?

Thanks!

Jessica

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