Message-ID: <191cfd49-0c66-a5ef-3d2b-b6c4132aa294@codeaurora.org>
Date:   Thu, 8 Mar 2018 12:42:13 -0600
From:   Jiandi An <anjiandi@...eaurora.org>
To:     Mimi Zohar <zohar@...ux.vnet.ibm.com>,
        James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@...senPartnership.com>,
        Jason Gunthorpe <jgg@...pe.ca>
Cc:     dmitry.kasatkin@...il.com, jmorris@...ei.org, serge@...lyn.com,
        linux-integrity@...r.kernel.org,
        linux-ima-devel@...ts.sourceforge.net,
        linux-ima-user@...ts.sourceforge.net,
        linux-security-module@...r.kernel.org, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH] security: Fix IMA Kconfig for dependencies on ARM64



On 03/07/2018 04:19 PM, Mimi Zohar wrote:
> On Wed, 2018-03-07 at 11:41 -0800, James Bottomley wrote:
>> On Wed, 2018-03-07 at 14:21 -0500, Mimi Zohar wrote:
>>> On Wed, 2018-03-07 at 11:08 -0800, James Bottomley wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, 2018-03-07 at 13:55 -0500, Mimi Zohar wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 2018-03-07 at 11:51 -0700, Jason Gunthorpe wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 06, 2018 at 11:26:26PM -0600, Jiandi An wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> TPM_CRB driver is the TPM support for ARM64.  If it
>>>>>>> is built as module, TPM chip is registered after IMA
>>>>>>> init.  tpm_pcr_read() in IMA driver would fail and
>>>>>>> display the following message even though eventually
>>>>>>> there is TPM chip on the system:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ima: No TPM chip found, activating TPM-bypass! (rc=-19)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fix IMA Kconfig to select TPM_CRB so TPM_CRB driver is
>>>>>>> built in kernel and initializes before IMA driver.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Signed-off-by: Jiandi An <anjiandi@...eaurora.org>
>>>>>>>   security/integrity/ima/Kconfig | 1 +
>>>>>>>   1 file changed, 1 insertion(+)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> diff --git a/security/integrity/ima/Kconfig
>>>>>>> b/security/integrity/ima/Kconfig
>>>>>>> index 35ef693..6a8f677 100644
>>>>>>> +++ b/security/integrity/ima/Kconfig
>>>>>>> @@ -10,6 +10,7 @@ config IMA
>>>>>>>   	select CRYPTO_HASH_INFO
>>>>>>>   	select TCG_TPM if HAS_IOMEM && !UML
>>>>>>>   	select TCG_TIS if TCG_TPM && X86
>>>>
>>>> Well, this explains why IMA doesn't work on one of my X86 systems:
>>>> it's got a non i2c infineon TPM.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> +	select TCG_CRB if TCG_TPM && ACPI
>>>>>>>   	select TCG_IBMVTPM if TCG_TPM && PPC_PSERIES
>>>>>>>   	help
>>>>>>>   	  The Trusted Computing Group(TCG) runtime Integrity
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This seems really weird, why are any specific TPM drivers
>>>>>> linked to IMA config, we have lots of drivers..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think I've ever seen this pattern in Kconfig before?
>>>>>
>>>>> As you've seen by the current discussions, the TPM driver needs
>>>>> to be initialized prior to IMA.  Otherwise IMA goes into TPM-
>>>>> bypass mode.  That implies that the TPM must be builtin to the
>>>>> kernel, and not as a kernel module.
>>>>
>>>> Actually, that's not necessarily true:  If we don't begin appraisal
>>>> until after the initrd phase, then the initrd can load TPM modules
>>>> before IMA starts.
>>>>
>>>> This would involve a bit of code rejigging to not require a TPM
>>>> until IMA wants to write its first measurement, but it looks doable
>>>> and would get us out of having to second guess TPM selections.
>>>
>>> The question is about measurement, not appraisal.  Although the
>>> initramfs might be measured, the initramfs can access files on the
>>> real root filesystem.  Those files need to be measured, before they
>>> are used/accessed.
>>
>> Isn't it a question of threat model?  Because the initrd is measured,
>> you know it's the one you specified and you should know its security
>> properties, so measurement doesn't really need to begin until the root
>> pivots.
> 
> Perhaps in the case where the initramfs is signed and the signature is
> verified, I would agree that I know the security properties of the
> initramfs.  That still doesn't negate the fact that the initramfs
> could access files on real root, without first measuring them.
> 
>> At that point you pick up the boot aggregate so the log now is
>> tied to the initrd measurement.  Conversely, I can't really see a
>> threat model where you could trick a correctly measured initrd into
>> subverting IMA, especially because listening network daemons aren't
>> usually active at this stage.
> 
> Linux based boot loaders can be configured to download remote kernel
> images and initramfs files - network boot.
> 
>> I'm not saying there isn't a use case for wanting your TPM built in,
>> I'm just saying I don't think it needs to be required for everyone who
>> uses IMA.
> 
> If the TPM module is not builtin, there are no guarantees when it was
> loaded.  There could be a disconnect between the IMA measurement list
> and the TPM PCRs.
> 
> If someone has a special use case, then I agree with you, that we
> could theoretically support it, but I don't think we want to confuse
> distros or anyone else.  The TPM should be builtin, so that IMA
> measurements can begin before accessing real root.
> 
> Mimi
> 

So from the discussion, I hear James suggests to overhaul the current
IMA driver to not do measurement (calling tpm_pcr_read(), etc) until
after initrd phase so TPM drivers can be built as modules.

I hear Mimi insists TPM drivers should be built-in when IMA driver is
enabled and set to Y in Kconfig.

Do we have a consensus on which way we should go?

I'm no expert on IMA and its driver.  James, will you be kind enough
to look into overhauling the IMA driver to not measure until after 
initrd phase if that's the consensus on resolving this?

Thanks
-Jiandi

-- 
Jiandi An
Qualcomm Datacenter Technologies, Inc. as an affiliate of Qualcomm 
Technologies, Inc.
Qualcomm Technologies, Inc. is a member of the Code Aurora Forum, a 
Linux Foundation Collaborative Project.

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