Message-ID: <20180509191508.GR27853@wotan.suse.de>
Date:   Wed, 9 May 2018 19:15:08 +0000
From:   "Luis R. Rodriguez" <mcgrof@...nel.org>
To:     Mimi Zohar <zohar@...ux.vnet.ibm.com>
Cc:     "Luis R. Rodriguez" <mcgrof@...nel.org>,
        linux-wireless <linux-wireless@...r.kernel.org>,
        Kalle Valo <kvalo@...eaurora.org>,
        Seth Forshee <seth.forshee@...onical.com>,
        Johannes Berg <johannes.berg@...el.com>,
        linux-integrity@...r.kernel.org,
        Hans de Goede <hdegoede@...hat.com>,
        Ard Biesheuvel <ard.biesheuvel@...aro.org>,
        Peter Jones <pjones@...hat.com>,
        linux-security-module@...r.kernel.org,
        linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, David Howells <dhowells@...hat.com>,
        Kees Cook <keescook@...omium.org>,
        Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>,
        Andres Rodriguez <andresx7@...il.com>,
        Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>,
        Andy Lutomirski <luto@...nel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 3/6] firmware: differentiate between signed regulatory.db
 and other firmware

On Wed, May 09, 2018 at 07:30:28AM -0400, Mimi Zohar wrote:
> On Tue, 2018-05-08 at 17:34 +0000, Luis R. Rodriguez wrote:
> > On Thu, May 03, 2018 at 08:24:26PM -0400, Mimi Zohar wrote:
> > > On Fri, 2018-05-04 at 00:07 +0000, Luis R. Rodriguez wrote:
> > > > On Tue, May 01, 2018 at 09:48:20AM -0400, Mimi Zohar wrote:
> > > > > Allow LSMs and IMA to differentiate between signed regulatory.db and
> > > > > other firmware.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Signed-off-by: Mimi Zohar <zohar@...ux.vnet.ibm.com>
> > > > > Cc: Luis R. Rodriguez <mcgrof@...e.com>
> > > > > Cc: David Howells <dhowells@...hat.com>
> > > > > Cc: Kees Cook <keescook@...omium.org>
> > > > > Cc: Seth Forshee <seth.forshee@...onical.com>
> > > > > Cc: Johannes Berg <johannes.berg@...el.com>
> > > > > ---
> > > > >  drivers/base/firmware_loader/main.c | 5 +++++
> > > > >  include/linux/fs.h                  | 1 +
> > > > >  2 files changed, 6 insertions(+)
> > > > > 
> > > > > diff --git a/drivers/base/firmware_loader/main.c b/drivers/base/firmware_loader/main.c
> > > > > index eb34089e4299..d7cdf04a8681 100644
> > > > > --- a/drivers/base/firmware_loader/main.c
> > > > > +++ b/drivers/base/firmware_loader/main.c
> > > > > @@ -318,6 +318,11 @@ fw_get_filesystem_firmware(struct device *device, struct fw_priv *fw_priv)
> > > > >  			break;
> > > > >  		}
> > > > >  
> > > > > +#ifdef CONFIG_CFG80211_REQUIRE_SIGNED_REGDB
> > > > > +		if ((strcmp(fw_priv->fw_name, "regulatory.db") == 0) ||
> > > > > +		    (strcmp(fw_priv->fw_name, "regulatory.db.p7s") == 0))
> > > > > +			id = READING_FIRMWARE_REGULATORY_DB;
> > > > > +#endif
> > > > 
> > > > Whoa, no way.
> > > 
> > > There are two methods for the kernel to verify firmware signatures.
> > 
> > Yes, but although CONFIG_CFG80211_REQUIRE_SIGNED_REGDB is its own kernel
> > mechanism to verify firmware it uses the request_firmware*() API for
> > regulatory.db and regulatory.db.p7s, and IMA already can appraise these two
> > files since the firmware API is used.
> 
> IMA-appraisal can verify a signature stored as an xattr, but not a
> detached signature.  That support could be added, but isn't there
> today.  Today, a regulatory.db signature would have to be stored as an
> xattr. 

Right, my point was that if someone has IMA installed:

	a) they would add those xattr to files in /lib/firmware/ already
	b) upon request_firmware*() calls a security hook would trigger
	   which would enable IMA to appraise those files. So not only
	   would the kernel in turn do double checks on regulatory.db,
	   but also a check on regulatory.db.p7s as well.

The difference I suppose is IMA would use a hash function instead of signature
check, correct?

> > As such I see no reason to add a new ID for them at all.
> > K
> > Its not providing an *alternative*, its providing an *extra* kernel measure.
> > If anything CONFIG_CFG80211_REQUIRE_SIGNED_REGDB perhaps should be its own
> > stacked LSM. I'd be open to see patches which set that out. May be a
> > cleaner interface.
> > 
> > > If both are enabled, do we require both signatures or is one enough.
> > 
> > Good question. Considering it as a stacked LSM (although not implemented
> > as one), I'd say its up to who enabled the Kconfig entries. If IMA and
> > CONFIG_CFG80211_REQUIRE_SIGNED_REGDB are enabled then both. If someone enabled
> > IMA though, then surely I agree that enabling
> > CONFIG_CFG80211_REQUIRE_SIGNED_REGDB is stupid and redundant, but its up to the
> > system integrator to decide.
> 
> Just because IMA-appraisal is enabled in the kernel doesn't mean that
> firmware signatures will be verified.  That is a run time policy
> decision.

Sure, I accept this if IMA does not do signature verification. However
signature verification seems like a stackable LSM decision, no?

> > If we however want to make it clear that such things as
> > CONFIG_CFG80211_REQUIRE_SIGNED_REGDB are not required when IMA is enabled we
> > could just make the kconfig depend on !IMA or something?  Or perhaps a new
> > kconfig for IMA which if selected it means that drivers can opt to open code
> > *further* kernel signature verification, even though IMA already is sufficient.
> > Perhaps CONFIG_ENABLE_IMA_OVERLAPPING, and the driver depends on it?
> 
> The existing CONFIG_IMA_APPRAISE is not enough.  If there was a build
> time IMA config that translated into an IMA policy requiring firmware
> signature verification (eg. CONFIG_IMA_APPRAISE_FIRMWARE), this could
> be sorted out at build time.

I see makes sense.

> > > Assigning a different id for regdb signed firmware allows LSMs and IMA
> > > to handle regdb files differently.
> > 
> > That's not the main concern here, its the precedent we are setting here for
> > any new kernel interface which open codes firmware signing on its own. What
> > you are doing means other kernel users who open codes their own firmware
> > signing may need to add yet-another reading ID. That doesn't either look
> > well on code, and seems kind of silly from a coding perspective given
> > the above, in which I clarify IMA still is doing its own appraisal on it.
> 
> Suppose,
> 
> 1. Either CONFIG_CFG80211_REQUIRE_SIGNED_REGDB or
> "CONFIG_IMA_APPRAISE_FIRMWARE" would be configured at build.
> 
> 2. If CONFIG_CFG80211_REQUIRE_SIGNED_REGDB is configured, not
> "CONFIG_IMA_APPRAISE_FIRMWARE", a custom IMA-policy rule that
> appraises the firmware signature could be defined.  In this case, both
> signature verification methods would be enforced.
> 
> then READING_FIRMWARE_REGULATORY_DB would not be needed.

True, however I'm suggesting that CONFIG_CFG80211_REQUIRE_SIGNED_REGDB
could just be a mini subsystem stackable LSM.

Its not clear to me why we need to add a new READING id to any open coded
firmware signature checks if we don't have this futuristic option
CONFIG_IMA_APPRAISE_FIRMWARE.

Yes it provides *more*, but IMA is still seeing the exact file descriptor
and do its own thing.

  Luis

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