linux-kernel - Re: [PATCH 06/10] x86/cet: Add arch

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Message-ID: <CALCETrXO8R+RQPhJFk4oiA4PF77OgSS2Yro_POXQj1zvdLo61A@mail.gmail.com>
Date:   Tue, 12 Jun 2018 09:01:48 -0700
From:   Andy Lutomirski <luto@...nel.org>
To:     "H. J. Lu" <hjl.tools@...il.com>
Cc:     Thomas Gleixner <tglx@...utronix.de>,
        Andrew Lutomirski <luto@...nel.org>,
        Yu-cheng Yu <yu-cheng.yu@...el.com>,
        LKML <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>, linux-doc@...r.kernel.org,
        Linux-MM <linux-mm@...ck.org>,
        linux-arch <linux-arch@...r.kernel.org>, X86 ML <x86@...nel.org>,
        "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@...or.com>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@...hat.com>,
        "Shanbhogue, Vedvyas" <vedvyas.shanbhogue@...el.com>,
        "Ravi V. Shankar" <ravi.v.shankar@...el.com>,
        Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@...ux.intel.com>,
        Jonathan Corbet <corbet@....net>,
        Oleg Nesterov <oleg@...hat.com>, Arnd Bergmann <arnd@...db.de>,
        mike.kravetz@...cle.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH 06/10] x86/cet: Add arch_prctl functions for shadow stack

On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 4:43 AM H.J. Lu <hjl.tools@...il.com> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 3:03 AM, Thomas Gleixner <tglx@...utronix.de> wrote:
> > On Thu, 7 Jun 2018, H.J. Lu wrote:
> >> On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 2:01 PM, Andy Lutomirski <luto@...nel.org> wrote:
> >> > Why is the lockout necessary?  If user code enables CET and tries to
> >> > run code that doesn't support CET, it will crash.  I don't see why we
> >> > need special code in the kernel to prevent a user program from calling
> >> > arch_prctl() and crashing itself.  There are already plenty of ways to
> >> > do that :)
> >>
> >> On CET enabled machine, not all programs nor shared libraries are
> >> CET enabled.  But since ld.so is CET enabled, all programs start
> >> as CET enabled.  ld.so will disable CET if a program or any of its shared
> >> libraries aren't CET enabled.  ld.so will lock up CET once it is done CET
> >> checking so that CET can't no longer be disabled afterwards.
> >
> > That works for stuff which loads all libraries at start time, but what
> > happens if the program uses dlopen() later on? If CET is force locked and
> > the library is not CET enabled, it will fail.
>
> That is to prevent disabling CET by dlopening a legacy shared library.
>
> > I don't see the point of trying to support CET by magic. It adds complexity
> > and you'll never be able to handle all corner cases correctly. dlopen() is
> > not even a corner case.
>
> That is a price we pay for security.  To enable CET, especially shadow
> shack, the program and all of shared libraries it uses should be CET
> enabled.  Most of programs can be enabled with CET by compiling them
> with -fcf-protection.

If you charge too high a price for security, people may turn it off.
I think we're going to need a mode where a program says "I want to use
the CET, but turn it off if I dlopen an unsupported library".  There
are programs that load binary-only plugins.