Date:   Mon, 18 Jun 2018 16:11:54 +0200
From:   Stefan Agner <stefan@...er.ch>
To:     Boris Brezillon <boris.brezillon@...tlin.com>
Cc:     dwmw2@...radead.org, computersforpeace@...il.com,
        marek.vasut@...il.com, robh+dt@...nel.org, mark.rutland@....com,
        thierry.reding@...il.com, dev@...xeye.de,
        miquel.raynal@...tlin.com, richard@....at, marcel@...wiler.com,
        krzk@...nel.org, digetx@...il.com, benjamin.lindqvist@...ian.se,
        jonathanh@...dia.com, pdeschrijver@...dia.com, pgaikwad@...dia.com,
        mirza.krak@...il.com, gaireg@...reg.de,
        linux-mtd@...ts.infradead.org, linux-tegra@...r.kernel.org,
        devicetree@...r.kernel.org, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH v5 0/6] mtd: rawnand: add NVIDIA Tegra NAND flash support

Hi Boris,

On 18.06.2018 13:59, Boris Brezillon wrote:
> Hi Stefan,
> 
> On Mon, 18 Jun 2018 12:51:52 +0200
> Stefan Agner <stefan@...er.ch> wrote:
> 
>> On 18.06.2018 11:58, Boris Brezillon wrote:
>> > On Sun, 17 Jun 2018 22:45:59 +0200
>> > Stefan Agner <stefan@...er.ch> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Changes definitly calm down, most noteably probably the changes
>> >> around checking whether a page is empty if the stack reports ECC
>> >> errors.. I verified the code using raw nandwrites with OOB to
>> >> simulate an empty page which has some bits flipped in the OOB area,
>> >> everthing seems to work as I would expect it.
>> >>
>> >> For now I do not check extra OOB bytes since those are at variable
>> >> locations depending on algorithm.
>> >
>> > Hm, if you expose them as free OOB bytes, you should also check them,
>> > otherwise you might end up with corrupted data without noticing it. Note
>> > that, depending on whether those free OOB bytes are ECC-protected or
>> > not, you should change the way you do the check:
>> >
>> > - non-protected OOB bytes: all bytes should be 0xff (no bitflips
>> >   allowed)
>> > - data+free OOB bytes protected by the same ECC bytes: you should pass
>> >   the free OOB bytes buffer to nand_check_erased_ecc_chunk() along with
>> >   the data and ECC buffers
>> > - free OOB bytes have their own ECC bytes: call
>> >   nand_check_erased_ecc_chunk() separately and pass it the ECC + free
>> >   OOB buffers.
>>
>> This graphic taken from the public Tegra 2 Technical Reference Manual is
>> quite useful:
>> https://imgur.com/a/0Hqzbkc
> 
> Thanks for sharing this doc.
> 
>>
>> Tegra basically has all of the above, which makes the whole business
>> really tricky...
> 
> I'm not sure. Are "Skip bytes" protected by "main data parity bytes"?
> 
> AFAICT, you have "Tag bytes" that fall in case #3 and "Remaining spare
> bytes" that fall in case #1. If "Skip bytes" are protected by the "main
> data parity bytes", then it falls in case #2, otherwise it probably
> goes in case #1.
> 

Skip bytes are not protected. I think they are mainly meant to skip the
bad block marker. Only 4, 8, 12 or 16 bytes are supported.

>>
>> I am not sure if we really could do variant 1, non-protected OOB, but
>> since we have the option of protected OOB, we probably anyway would do
>> that.
> 
> That's up to you, but in this case, you should not declare those bytes
> as free (didn't check what is currently done in the driver).
> 
>>
>> RS/Hamming implements variant 3.
> 
> It seems to be a mix of #1 and #3, but I'm not sure (see above).
> 
>>
>> BCH implements variant 2.
> 
> I'd say it's a mix of #1 (skip + remaining bytes) and #2(tag bytes).
> 
>> OOB is protected with the last data buffer.
> 
> That would be weird, but maybe you're right. HW ECC engine usually
> split the OOB area in X portions, X being the number of ECC steps needed
> to cover a NAND page, and then have ECC bytes cover a sub-portion of
> data+OOB.
> 
> For example, for a NAND page of 2k with 64 bytes of OOB, and assuming
> the ECC step is 512bytes, you usually have something like:
> 
> [512(data)+8(protected-oob)+8(ecc)] x 4
> 

The TRM explicitly states so:

"BCH mode Error correction
- Error correction with involving spare only transfers is not supported.
ECC calculation of last sub-page includes tag data in spare area.
- Error correction with Main only transfers is supported.
- Maximum possible length of Tag data size is 252 bytes."


>>
>> So this would require a algorithm depending implementation, which is
>> probably not a big deal.
> 
> True.
> 
>>
>> But there is one more issue with BCH: Only if extra data are actually
>> transferred, tag space is actually allocated. If no tag bytes are
>> transferred, parity follows immediately skip bytes. As far as I know the
>> MTD stacks OOB layout assumes that is always the same layout, no matter
>> whether we write extra OOB data or not. For the Tegra NAND controller
>> this would mean that we have to always transfer tag bytes and therefor
>> penalize the use case we are most interested in (which is no extra OOB
>> bytes, since UBI does not make use of it)...
> 
> Hm, given the amount of tag bytes I don't think you'll have a huge
> penalty, so I'd recommend always sending those bytes. Alternatively,
> you could decide that you never want to have those tag bytes and expose
> none of them.
> 
>>
>> Furthermore I realized that testing is not easily possible since
>> nandwrite with --oob seems not to make use of "oob_required" in the main
>> page write but issues a separate OOB write command. I did not found a
>> way to issue a write from user space which sets oob_required...
> 
> Maybe it's time to patch those tools. The ioctl exists, so it's just a
> matter of using it in nandwrite/mtd-utils.
> 
>>
>> Due to all this I rather prefer to not implement extra OOB support at
>> this point.
> 
> I'm fine with that, but that means no JFFS2 support, as I think JFFS2
> wants to place some of its metadata in the OOB area. Also, I fear it
> will be a mess to add support for that kind of things without breaking
> existing setup afterwards, so, by taking this decision you're pretty
> much saying that this controller will never expose free OOB bytes.
> That's not a problem from my PoV, but I want you to be aware of that.
> 

We already operate without extra OOB byte support in our downstream BSP.
I'd rather have a easy upgrade path today...

Another issue I just realized: The boot ROM only supports BCH without
tag bytes... So at least the boot loader has to be written without tag
bytes.

>>
>> How do I do this properly? Set mtd_ooblayout_ops.free to NULL?
> 
> Just implement a dummy function that returns -ERANGE.
> 

Ok, I will go with this then.

Also, thanks for all your valuable feedback, really appreciated!

--
Stefan

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