linux-kernel - Re: [RFC 0/4] Virtio uses DMA API for all devices

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Message-ID: <20180802235233-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org>
Date:   Thu, 2 Aug 2018 23:53:08 +0300
From:   "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@...hat.com>
To:     Benjamin Herrenschmidt <benh@...nel.crashing.org>
Cc:     Christoph Hellwig <hch@...radead.org>,
        Will Deacon <will.deacon@....com>,
        Anshuman Khandual <khandual@...ux.vnet.ibm.com>,
        virtualization@...ts.linux-foundation.org,
        linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, linuxppc-dev@...ts.ozlabs.org,
        aik@...abs.ru, robh@...nel.org, joe@...ches.com,
        elfring@...rs.sourceforge.net, david@...son.dropbear.id.au,
        jasowang@...hat.com, mpe@...erman.id.au, linuxram@...ibm.com,
        haren@...ux.vnet.ibm.com, paulus@...ba.org,
        srikar@...ux.vnet.ibm.com, robin.murphy@....com,
        jean-philippe.brucker@....com, marc.zyngier@....com
Subject: Re: [RFC 0/4] Virtio uses DMA API for all devices

On Thu, Aug 02, 2018 at 10:33:05AM -0500, Benjamin Herrenschmidt wrote:
> On Thu, 2018-08-02 at 00:56 +0300, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> > > but it's not, VMs are
> > > created in "legacy" mode all the times and we don't know at VM creation
> > > time whether it will become a secure VM or not. The way our secure VMs
> > > work is that they start as a normal VM, load a secure "payload" and
> > > call the Ultravisor to "become" secure.
> > > 
> > > So we're in a bit of a bind here. We need that one-liner optional arch
> > > hook to make virtio use swiotlb in that "IOMMU bypass" case.
> > > 
> > > Ben.
> > 
> > And just to make sure I understand, on your platform DMA APIs do include
> > some of the cache flushing tricks and this is why you don't want to
> > declare iommu support in the hypervisor?
> 
> I'm not sure I parse what you mean.
> 
> We don't need cache flushing tricks.

You don't but do real devices on same platform need them?

> The problem we have with our
> "secure" VMs is that:
> 
>  - At VM creation time we have no idea it's going to become a secure
> VM, qemu doesn't know anything about it, and thus qemu (or other
> management tools, libvirt etc...) are going to create "legacy" (ie
> iommu bypass) virtio devices.
> 
>  - Once the VM goes secure (early during boot but too late for qemu),
> it will need to make virtio do bounce-buffering via swiotlb because
> qemu cannot physically access most VM pages (blocked by HW security
> features), we need to bounce buffer using some unsecure pages that are
> accessible to qemu.
> 
> That said, I wouldn't object for us to more generally switch long run
> to changing qemu so that virtio on powerpc starts using the IOMMU as a
> default provided we fix our guest firmware to understand it (it
> currently doesn't), and provided we verify that the performance impact
> on things like vhost is negligible.
> 
> Cheers,
> Ben.
>