linux-kernel - Re: Plumbers 2018 - Performance and Scalability Microconference

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Message-ID: <3db2b742-9e09-a934-e4ef-c87465e6715a@oracle.com>
Date:   Mon, 10 Sep 2018 20:29:00 -0400
From:   Daniel Jordan <daniel.m.jordan@...cle.com>
To:     John Hubbard <jhubbard@...dia.com>,
        Waiman Long <longman@...hat.com>, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
        "linux-mm@...ck.org" <linux-mm@...ck.org>,
        Aaron Lu <aaron.lu@...el.com>, alex.kogan@...cle.com,
        akpm@...ux-foundation.org, boqun.feng@...il.com, brouer@...hat.com,
        dave.dice@...cle.com, Dhaval Giani <dhaval.giani@...cle.com>,
        ktkhai@...tuozzo.com, ldufour@...ux.vnet.ibm.com,
        Pavel.Tatashin@...rosoft.com, paulmck@...ux.vnet.ibm.com,
        shady.issa@...cle.com, tariqt@...lanox.com, tglx@...utronix.de,
        tim.c.chen@...el.com, vbabka@...e.cz, yang.shi@...ux.alibaba.com,
        shy828301@...il.com, Huang Ying <ying.huang@...el.com>,
        subhra.mazumdar@...cle.com,
        Steven Sistare <steven.sistare@...cle.com>, jwadams@...gle.com,
        ashwinch@...gle.com, sqazi@...gle.com,
        Shakeel Butt <shakeelb@...gle.com>, walken@...gle.com,
        rientjes@...gle.com, junaids@...gle.com,
        Neha Agarwal <nehaagarwal@...gle.com>
Subject: Re: Plumbers 2018 - Performance and Scalability Microconference

On 9/10/18 1:34 PM, John Hubbard wrote:
> On 9/10/18 10:20 AM, Davidlohr Bueso wrote:
>> On Mon, 10 Sep 2018, Waiman Long wrote:
>>> On 09/08/2018 12:13 AM, John Hubbard wrote:
> [...]
>>>> It's also interesting that there are two main huge page systems (THP and Hugetlbfs), and I sometimes
>>>> wonder the obvious thing to wonder: are these sufficiently different to warrant remaining separate,
>>>> long-term?  Yes, I realize they're quite different in some ways, but still, one wonders. :)
>>>
>>> One major difference between hugetlbfs and THP is that the former has to
>>> be explicitly managed by the applications that use it whereas the latter
>>> is done automatically without the applications being aware that THP is
>>> being used at all. Performance wise, THP may or may not increase
>>> application performance depending on the exact memory access pattern,
>>> though the chance is usually higher that an application will benefit
>>> than suffer from it.
>>>
>>> If an application know what it is doing, using hughtblfs can boost
>>> performance more than it can ever achieved by THP. Many large enterprise
>>> applications, like Oracle DB, are using hugetlbfs and explicitly disable
>>> THP. So unless THP can improve its performance to a level that is
>>> comparable to hugetlbfs, I won't see the later going away.
>>
>> Yep, there are a few non-trivial workloads out there that flat out discourage
>> thp, ie: redis to avoid latency issues.
>>
> 
> Yes, the need for guaranteed, available-now huge pages in some cases is
> understood. That's not the quite same as saying that there have to be two different
> subsystems, though. Nor does it even necessarily imply that the pool has to be
> reserved in the same way as hugetlbfs does it...exactly.
> 
> So I'm wondering if THP behavior can be made to mimic hugetlbfs enough (perhaps
> another option, in addition to "always, never, madvise") that we could just use
> THP in all cases. But the "transparent" could become a sliding scale that could
> go all the way down to "opaque" (hugetlbfs behavior).

Leaving the interface aside, the idea that we could deduplicate redundant parts of the hugetlbfs and THP implementations, without user-visible change, seems promising.