linux-kernel - Re: [PATCH 10/17] prmem: documentation

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Message-ID: <20181101170809.GG3178@hirez.programming.kicks-ass.net>
Date:   Thu, 1 Nov 2018 18:08:09 +0100
From:   Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>
To:     Andy Lutomirski <luto@...capital.net>
Cc:     Matthew Wilcox <willy@...radead.org>,
        Igor Stoppa <igor.stoppa@...il.com>,
        Tycho Andersen <tycho@...ho.ws>,
        Kees Cook <keescook@...omium.org>,
        Mimi Zohar <zohar@...ux.vnet.ibm.com>,
        Dave Chinner <david@...morbit.com>,
        James Morris <jmorris@...ei.org>,
        Michal Hocko <mhocko@...nel.org>,
        Kernel Hardening <kernel-hardening@...ts.openwall.com>,
        linux-integrity <linux-integrity@...r.kernel.org>,
        LSM List <linux-security-module@...r.kernel.org>,
        Igor Stoppa <igor.stoppa@...wei.com>,
        Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@...ux.intel.com>,
        Jonathan Corbet <corbet@....net>,
        Laura Abbott <labbott@...hat.com>,
        Randy Dunlap <rdunlap@...radead.org>,
        Mike Rapoport <rppt@...ux.vnet.ibm.com>,
        "open list:DOCUMENTATION" <linux-doc@...r.kernel.org>,
        LKML <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        Thomas Gleixner <tglx@...utronix.de>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 10/17] prmem: documentation

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 03:57:21PM -0700, Andy Lutomirski wrote:
> > On Oct 31, 2018, at 2:00 PM, Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org> wrote:
> >> On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 01:36:48PM -0700, Andy Lutomirski wrote:

> >> This stuff is called *rare* write for a reason. Do we really want to
> >> allow atomics beyond just store-release?  Taking a big lock and then
> >> writing in the right order should cover everything, no?
> > 
> > Ah, so no. That naming is very misleading.
> > 
> > We modify page-tables a _lot_. The point is that only a few sanctioned
> > sites are allowed writing to it, not everybody.
> > 
> > I _think_ the use-case for atomics is updating the reference counts of
> > objects that are in this write-rare domain. But I'm not entirely clear
> > on that myself either. I just really want to avoid duplicating that
> > stuff.
> 
> Sounds nuts. Doing a rare-write is many hundreds of cycles at best.

Yes, which is why I'm somewhat sceptical of the whole endeavour.