Message-ID: <20181107231411.GB41183@google.com>
Date:   Wed, 7 Nov 2018 17:14:11 -0600
From:   Bjorn Helgaas <helgaas@...nel.org>
To:     Srinivas Pandruvada <srinivas.pandruvada@...ux.intel.com>
Cc:     Borislav Petkov <bp@...en8.de>,
        "Woods, Brian" <Brian.Woods@....com>,
        Thomas Gleixner <tglx@...utronix.de>,
        Ingo Molnar <mingo@...hat.com>,
        "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@...or.com>,
        "x86@...nel.org" <x86@...nel.org>,
        Clemens Ladisch <clemens@...isch.de>,
        Jean Delvare <jdelvare@...e.com>,
        Guenter Roeck <linux@...ck-us.net>, Pu Wen <puwen@...on.cn>,
        Jia Zhang <qianyue.zj@...baba-inc.com>,
        Takashi Iwai <tiwai@...e.de>,
        Andy Whitcroft <apw@...onical.com>,
        Colin Ian King <colin.king@...onical.com>,
        Myron Stowe <myron.stowe@...hat.com>,
        Sumeet Pawnikar <sumeet.r.pawnikar@...el.com>,
        "linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        "linux-hwmon@...r.kernel.org" <linux-hwmon@...r.kernel.org>,
        "linux-pci@...r.kernel.org" <linux-pci@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 2/4] x86/amd_nb: add support for newer PCI topologies

On Wed, Nov 07, 2018 at 02:42:00PM -0800, Srinivas Pandruvada wrote:
> On Wed, 2018-11-07 at 15:31 -0600, Bjorn Helgaas wrote:
> > On Wed, Nov 07, 2018 at 11:15:37AM -0800, Srinivas Pandruvada wrote:
> > > On Tue, 2018-11-06 at 17:20 -0600, Bjorn Helgaas wrote:
> > > > [+cc Sumeet, Srinivas for INT3401 questions below]
> > > > [Beginning of thread:
> https://lore.kernel.org/linux-pci/20181102181055.130531-1-brian.woods@amd.com/
> > > > ]
> > > > 
> > > > On Tue, Nov 06, 2018 at 11:00:59PM +0100, Borislav Petkov wrote:
> > > > > On Tue, Nov 06, 2018 at 03:42:56PM -0600, Bjorn Helgaas wrote:
> > > > > > This isn't some complicated new device where the programming
> > > > > > model changed on the new CPU.  This is a thermometer that was
> > > > > > already supported.  ACPI provides plenty of functionality
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > could be used to support this generically, e.g., see
> > > > > > drivers/acpi/thermal.c,
> > > > > > drivers/thermal/int340x_thermal/processor_thermal_device.c,
> > > > > > etc.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Ok, you say ACPI but how do you envision practically doing
> > > > > that?
> > > > > I mean, this is used by old boxes too - ever since K8. So how
> > > > > do
> > > > > we go and add ACPI functionality to old boxes?
> > > > > 
> > > > > Or do you mean it should simply be converted to do
> > > > > pci_register_driver() with a struct pci_driver pointer which
> > > > > has
> > > > > all those PCI device IDs in a table? I'm looking at the last
> > > > > example
> > > > > drivers/thermal/int340x_thermal/processor_thermal_device.c you
> > > > > gave above.
> > > > 
> > > > No, there would be no need to change anything for boxes already
> > > > in
> > > > the field.  But for *new* systems, you could make devices or
> > > > thermal zones in the ACPI namespace (they might even already be
> > > > there for use by Windows).
> > > > 
> > > > drivers/thermal/int340x_thermal/processor_thermal_device.c claims
> > > > either INT3401 ACPI devices or listed PCI devices. 
> > > 
> > > To enumerate a driver to get processor temperature and get power
> > > properties, we have two methods:
> > > -  The older Atom processors valleyview and Baytrail had no PCI
> > > device
> > > for the processor thermal management. There was INT3401 ACPI device
> > > to
> > > handle this.
> > > 
> > > - The newer processors for core and Atom, has a dedicate PCI device
> > > and
> > > there is no INT3401 ACPI device anymore.
> > 
> > This is really interesting because it's completely the reverse of
> > what
> > I would have expected.
> > 
> > You use INT3401 on the *older* processors, where int3401_add() is
> > called for any platform devices with INT3401 PNP ID:
> > 
> >   int3401_add(plat_dev)                   # platform/ACPI .probe
> >     proc_thermal_add(dev)
> >       adev = ACPI_COMPANION(dev)
> >       int340x_thermal_zone_add(adev)
> > 	thermal_zone_device_register()
> > 
> > The sensors are read in this path, where thermal_zone_get_temp() is
> > the generic thermal entry point:
> > 
> >   thermal_zone_get_temp()
> >     tz->ops->get_temp()
> >       int340x_thermal_get_zone_temp()    # ops.get_temp
> > 	acpi_evaluate_integer(..., "_TMP", ...)
> > 
> > The above works for any platform that supplies the INT3401 device
> > because the _TMP method that actually reads the sensor is supplied by
> > the platform firmware.
> > 
> > On *newer* processors, you apparently use this path:
> > 
> >   proc_thermal_pci_probe(pci_dev)        # PCI .probe
> >     pci_enable_device(pci_dev)
> >     proc_thermal_add(dev)
> >       adev = ACPI_COMPANION(dev)
> >       int340x_thermal_zone_add(adev)
> > 	thermal_zone_device_register()
> > 
> > Except for enabling the PCI device and a BSW_THERMAL hack, this is
> > exactly the *SAME*: you add a thermal zone for the ACPI device and
> > read the sensor using ACPI _TMP methods.
> > 
> > But now you have to add new PCI IDs (Skylake, Broxton, CannonLake,
> > CoffeeLake, GeminiLake, etc) for every new platform.  This seems like
> > a regression, not an improvement.  What am I missing?
> 
> Path of activation via both devices is same. Both will call
> proc_thermal_add().
> 
> There is no INT3401 on any newer atom or core platforms, so you can't
> enumerate on this device. We don't control what ACPI device is present
> on a system. It depends on what the other non-Linux OS is using.

Sure, you can't *force* OEMs to supply a given ACPI device, but you
can certainly say "if you want this functionality, supply INT3401
devices."  That's what you do with PNP0A03 (PCI host bridges), for
example.  If an OEM doesn't supply PNP0A03 devices, the system can
boot just fine as long as you don't need PCI.

This model of using the PCI IDs forces OS vendors to release updates
for every new platform.  I guess you must have considered that and
decided whatever benefit you're getting was worth the cost.

>  Also the PCI  ACPI companion device doesn't have to supply a _TMP
> method.

> The INT3401 is a special device which must have _TMP otherwise firmware
> validation will fail. Yes, if there is INT3401 on all platforms we
> don't need PCI enumeration just for temperature and trips. But this PCI
> device brings in lots of other features which are still in works.

You can add new features in ACPI devices just as well as with PCI
enumeration.

> Not sure about the context of discussion here. Are you suggesting some
> core changes where we don't have to add PCI ids like Skylake etc. ?

This started because I suggested that AMD was making work for
themselves by exposing more topology detail than necessary, which
means they have to change amd_nb.c and add PCI IDs to k10temp.c to
accommodate new platforms.

And it looks like Intel is doing the same thing by moving from a model
where some platform specifics can be encapsulated in ACPI methods so a
new platform doesn't force an OS release, to a model where new
platforms require OS driver updates.

Obviously I don't know all the new features you're planning, so I'll
stop pushing on this and wasting your time.

Bjorn

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