Date:   Mon, 24 Dec 2018 14:09:29 -0500
From:   "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@...hat.com>
To:     Jason Wang <jasowang@...hat.com>
Cc:     David Miller <davem@...emloft.net>, kvm@...r.kernel.org,
        virtualization@...ts.linux-foundation.org, netdev@...r.kernel.org,
        linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH net-next 0/3] vhost: accelerate metadata access through
 vmap()

On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 04:44:14PM +0800, Jason Wang wrote:
> 
> On 2018/12/17 上午3:57, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> > On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 11:43:08AM -0800, David Miller wrote:
> > > From: Jason Wang <jasowang@...hat.com>
> > > Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2018 12:29:54 +0800
> > > 
> > > > On 2018/12/14 上午4:12, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> > > > > On Thu, Dec 13, 2018 at 06:10:19PM +0800, Jason Wang wrote:
> > > > > > Hi:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > This series tries to access virtqueue metadata through kernel virtual
> > > > > > address instead of copy_user() friends since they had too much
> > > > > > overheads like checks, spec barriers or even hardware feature
> > > > > > toggling.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Test shows about 24% improvement on TX PPS. It should benefit other
> > > > > > cases as well.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Please review
> > > > > I think the idea of speeding up userspace access is a good one.
> > > > > However I think that moving all checks to start is way too aggressive.
> > > > 
> > > > So did packet and AF_XDP. Anyway, sharing address space and access
> > > > them directly is the fastest way. Performance is the major
> > > > consideration for people to choose backend. Compare to userspace
> > > > implementation, vhost does not have security advantages at any
> > > > level. If vhost is still slow, people will start to develop backends
> > > > based on e.g AF_XDP.
> > > Exactly, this is precisely how this kind of problem should be solved.
> > > 
> > > Michael, I strongly support the approach Jason is taking here, and I
> > > would like to ask you to seriously reconsider your objections.
> > > 
> > > Thank you.
> > Okay. Won't be the first time I'm wrong.
> > 
> > Let's say we ignore security aspects, but we need to make sure the
> > following all keep working (broken with this revision):
> > - file backed memory (I didn't see where we mark memory dirty -
> >    if we don't we get guest memory corruption on close, if we do
> >    then host crash as https://lwn.net/Articles/774411/ seems to apply here?)
> 
> 
> We only pin metadata pages, so I don't think they can be used for DMA. So it
> was probably not an issue. The real issue is zerocopy codes, maybe it's time
> to disable it by default?
> 
> 
> > - THP
> 
> 
> We will miss 2 or 4 pages for THP, I wonder whether or not it's measurable.
> 
> 
> > - auto-NUMA
> 
> 
> I'm not sure auto-NUMA will help for the case of IPC. It can damage the
> performance in the worst case if vhost and userspace are running in two
> different nodes. Anyway I can measure.
> 
> 
> > 
> > Because vhost isn't like AF_XDP where you can just tell people "use
> > hugetlbfs" and "data is removed on close" - people are using it in lots
> > of configurations with guest memory shared between rings and unrelated
> > data.
> 
> 
> This series doesn't share data, only metadata is shared.

Let me clarify - I mean that metadata is in same huge page with
unrelated guest data. 

> 
> > 
> > Jason, thoughts on these?
> > 
> 
> Based on the above, I can measure the impact of THP to see how it impacts.
> 
> For unsafe variants, it can only work for when we can batch the access and
> it needs non trivial rework on the vhost codes with unexpected amount of
> work for archs other than x86. I'm not sure it's worth to try.
> 
> Thanks

Yes I think we need better APIs in vhost. Right now
we have an API to get and translate a single buffer.
We should have one that gets a batch of descriptors
and stores it, then one that translates this batch.

IMHO this will benefit everyone even if we do vmap due to
better code locality.

-- 
MST

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