Message-ID: <3e38ff92-15b2-6ca0-cafa-f02ce15cf83c@redhat.com>
Date:   Tue, 8 Jan 2019 18:01:43 +0800
From:   Jason Wang <jasowang@...hat.com>
To:     "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@...hat.com>
Cc:     kvm@...r.kernel.org, virtualization@...ts.linux-foundation.org,
        netdev@...r.kernel.org, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
        davem@...emloft.net, Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@...el.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH V3 0/5] Hi:


On 2019/1/7 下午10:37, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 07, 2019 at 02:50:17PM +0800, Jason Wang wrote:
>> On 2019/1/7 下午12:17, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
>>> On Mon, Jan 07, 2019 at 11:53:41AM +0800, Jason Wang wrote:
>>>> On 2019/1/7 上午11:28, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, Jan 07, 2019 at 10:19:03AM +0800, Jason Wang wrote:
>>>>>> On 2019/1/3 上午4:47, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, Dec 29, 2018 at 08:46:51PM +0800, Jason Wang wrote:
>>>>>>>> This series tries to access virtqueue metadata through kernel virtual
>>>>>>>> address instead of copy_user() friends since they had too much
>>>>>>>> overheads like checks, spec barriers or even hardware feature
>>>>>>>> toggling.
>>>>>>> Will review, thanks!
>>>>>>> One questions that comes to mind is whether it's all about bypassing
>>>>>>> stac/clac.  Could you please include a performance comparison with
>>>>>>> nosmap?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> On machine without SMAP (Sandy Bridge):
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Before: 4.8Mpps
>>>>>>
>>>>>> After: 5.2Mpps
>>>>> OK so would you say it's really unsafe versus safe accesses?
>>>>> Or would you say it's just a better written code?
>>>> It's the effect of removing speculation barrier.
>>> You mean __uaccess_begin_nospec introduced by
>>> commit 304ec1b050310548db33063e567123fae8fd0301
>>> ?
>> Yes.
>>
>>
>>> So fundamentally we do access_ok checks when supplying
>>> the memory table to the kernel thread, and we should
>>> do the spec barrier there.
>>>
>>> Then we can just create and use a variant of uaccess macros that does
>>> not include the barrier?
>>
>> The unsafe ones?
> Fundamentally yes.
>
>
>>> Or, how about moving the barrier into access_ok?
>>> This way repeated accesses with a single access_ok get a bit faster.
>>> CC Dan Williams on this idea.
>>
>> The problem is, e.g for vhost control path. During mem table validation, we
>> don't even want to access them there. So the spec barrier is not needed.
> Again spec barrier is not needed as such at all. It's defence in depth.
> And mem table init is slow path. So we can stick a barrier there and it
> won't be a problem for anyone.


Consider it's a generic helper. For a deep defense we should keep it 
around the places we do the real userspace memory access.


>
>>>
>>>>>> On machine with SMAP (Broadwell):
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Before: 5.0Mpps
>>>>>>
>>>>>> After: 6.1Mpps
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No smap: 7.5Mpps
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>> no smap being before or after?
>>>>>
>>>> Let me clarify:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Before (SMAP on): 5.0Mpps
>>>>
>>>> Before (SMAP off): 7.5Mpps
>>>>
>>>> After (SMAP on): 6.1Mpps
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>> How about after + smap off?
>>
>> After (SMAP off): 8.0Mpps
>>
>>> And maybe we want a module option just for the vhost thread to keep smap
>>> off generally since almost all it does is copy stuff from userspace into
>>> kernel anyway. Because what above numbers should is that we really
>>> really want a solution that isn't limited to just meta-data access,
>>> and I really do not see how any such solution can not also be
>>> used to make meta-data access fast.
>>
>> As we've discussed in another thread of previous version. This requires lots
>> of changes, the main issues is SMAP state was not saved/restored on explicit
>> schedule().
> I wonder how expensive can reading eflags be?
> If it's cheap we can just check EFLAGS.AC and rerun stac if needed.


Probably not expensive, but consider vhost is probably the only user, is 
it really worth to do this? If we do vmap + batched copy, most part of 
the code were still under protection of SMAP but the performance is 
almost the same. Isn't this a much better solution?


>
>> Even if it did, since vhost will call lots of net/block codes,
>> any kind of uaccess in those codes needs understand this special request
>> from vhost e.g you provably need to invent a new kinds of iov iterator that
>> does not touch SMAP at all. And I'm not sure this is the only thing we need
>> to deal with.
>
> Well we wanted to move packet processing from tun into vhost anyway right?


Yes, but how about other devices? And we should deal with zerocopy path. 
It not a small amount of refactoring and work.


>
>> So I still prefer to:
>>
>> 1) speedup the metadata access through vmap + MMU notifier
>>
>> 2) speedup the datacopy with batched copy (unsafe ones or other new
>> interfaces)
>>
>> Thanks
> I just guess once you do (2) you will want to rework (1) to use
> the new interfaces.



Do you mean batching? So batched copy is much more easier, just few 
codes if unsafe variants if ready or we can invent new safe variants. 
But it would still be slower than vmap. And what's more, vmap does not 
conflict with batching.


>   So all the effort you are now investing in (1)
> will be wasted. Just my $.02.
>

Speeding up metadata access is much easier and vmap was the fastest 
method. So we can benefit from it soon. Speeding up data copy requires 
much more work to do. And in the future if kernel or vhost is ready for 
some new API and perf numbers prove its advantage, it doesn't harm to 
switch.


Thanks

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