Message-ID: <2706675.qmhD4SUPsn@pcbe13614>
Date:   Wed, 10 Apr 2019 17:13:32 +0200
From:   Federico Vaga <federico.vaga@...n.ch>
To:     Alan Tull <atull@...nel.org>
CC:     Eric Schwarz <eas@...optimization.com>,
        linux-kernel <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        <linux-fpga@...r.kernel.org>, <linux-pci@...r.kernel.org>,
        "open list:OPEN FIRMWARE AND FLATTENED DEVICE TREE BINDINGS" 
        <devicetree@...r.kernel.org>, <linux-x86_64@...r.kernel.org>,
        <linux-fpga-owner@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: Device Description for FPGA Components on x86 system

Hi Alan,

thanks for your answer

On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 4:21:09 PM CEST Alan Tull wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 10, 2019 at 7:50 AM Federico Vaga <federico.vaga@...n.ch> wrote:
> 
> Hi Federico,
> 
> I wish I could point you to a complete solution, but there is a lot of
> work to be done in this area.  Most of what is in the kernel is a low
> level in-kernel API [4].  As you correctly state, the hardest part of
> this is doing the enumerating if you are on x86 and aren't using
> devicetree.
> 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > P.S. sorry if I'm too verbose, hopefully it is useful
> > 
> > thanks for the answer
> > 
> > On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 12:30:14 PM CEST Eric Schwarz wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > > 
> > > everything you want is already available and on the way to mainline
> > > concerning support for various FPGA loading modes or available for
> > > checkout from a git repository.
> > > All that has already been discussed on the mailing list.
> > > 
> > > FPGA loading interface is available here [1].
> > > Patchset missing for FPGA loading has been sent to the mailing list from
> > > Anatolij Gustschin for various Linux kernel versions. Link to the most
> > > recent patchset version [2].
> > > FPGA Manager mailing list archive link [3] - Please read up the story
> > > here around those patches and also the replies of the others.
> > 
> > This does not answer the problem, which perhaps need to be clarified.
> > 
> > Loading FPGA is **not** the problem, I listed it in the things I want to
> > achieve because it is a pre-requirement for the real problem and because
> > the two processes are linked (or could be).
> > 
> > I continue by commenting myself below, trying to make the use case
> > clearer.
> > 
> > > Cheers
> > > Eric
> > > 
> > > [1] https://github.com/vdsao/fpga-cfg
> > > [2] https://marc.info/?l=linux-fpga&m=155078072107199&w=2
> > > [3] https://marc.info/?l=linux-fpga
> > > 
> > > Am 10.04.2019 12:01, schrieb Federico Vaga:
> > > > Hello,
> > > > 
> > > > sorry to push for an answer but I do not want to take the risk of
> > > > designing
> > > > something useless. I do not know how should I interpret a no-answer.
> > > > 
> > > > If the solution really does not exist today, then I would like to
> > > > collect
> > > > opinions/arguments/requirements on the topic so that I can write
> > > > something
> > > > useful not only for CERN but for the entire community.
> > > > 
> > > > Thank you
> > > > 
> > > > On Wednesday, March 27, 2019 6:17:18 PM CEST Federico Vaga wrote:
> > > >> Hello,
> > > >> 
> > > >> I'm looking for guidance
> > > >> 
> > > >> What I have:
> > > >> * Intel x86_64 computer
> > > >> * PCIe card with FPGA on it
> > > >> 
> > > >> What I want to achieve:
> > > >> * load an FPGA bitstream on the card
> > > >> * load a device-tree like description for the FPGA devices contained
> > > >> in the bitstream
> > 
> > Let me first elaborate on my knowledge to avoid misunderstandings.
> > 
> > On ARM, nowadays, we boot with a device tree. Later we program an FPGA in
> > which there are other devices described by a device tree overlay. This can
> > be done easily.
> > 
> > A typical PC (x86/x86_64) does not boot with DeviceTree (it is possible,
> > but it is not common and probably not even suggested, not sure), instead
> > it uses ACPI.
> 
> I have heard it suggested that we work on using DT overlays on x86*.
> It's clear there's work to be done to make that work.  I don't know if
> anybody has really tried.  It seems impractical to map or translate a
> x86 systems ACPI into a DT and go from there.  


> One suggestion a few
> years ago was adding a partial DT that had nodes that could serve as
> overlay targets and have that running in parallel with ACPI.

This is also one of my ideas for a solution to our problems. Are you able to 
easily retrieve that conversation? Perhaps this is something on which I can 
work on.

> > The FPGA Manager has support only for DeviceTree (there are patching
> > floating around to load a bitstream with configfs, debugfs or a
> > chardevice (guilty))
> There's one other interface in the kernel upstream. The DFL (device
> feature list) framework built on the FPGA manager/bridge/region stuff
> [5].   It's probably not what you specifically are looking for, I'm
> mentioning as it exists in upstream.  It has a limited type of
> enumeration and appears to mostly be geared for acceleration rather
> than adding and enumerating any random hardware block.  Also it
> requires specific bitstreams as the feature list is in fpga fabric.
> 
> > Most drivers foresee a DeviceTree loading but not an ACPI one (my feeling,
> > I did not extract exact numbers from the sources)
> > 
> > DeviceTree overlay requires that the system boots with DeviceTree.
> > 
> > DeviceTree and ACPI do not work together
> > 
> > So, this is the state of art that I am aware of. Correct me if, and where,
> > I am wrong.
> > 
> > 
> > Restarting from this point. I have a PC (x86_64) with a PCIe FPGA card
> > (e.g. sis8160, spec, links below). How to load the FPGA bitstream (not
> > really a problem as you correctly pointed out) **and** load all the
> > IP-core instances in that FPGA bitstream so that drivers will start
> > running?
> > 
> > - Is there a recommendation for such use case?
> > - ACPI SSDT overlay?
> > - DT overlay?
> > - is there a standard way to load FPGA IP-core devices which is
> > architecture independent?
> > 
> > A simple and practical example. The i2c-ocore.c is a platform_driver for
> > an
> > HDL I2C Master from open cores. I synthesize it and then load it on the
> > FPGA. How to create the Linux platform_device instance to driver that
> > IP-core? How to do that when you have also IRQ controller(s), DMA
> > engine(s), EEPROM(s) and other devices?
> > 
> > The fastest solution is to do what was common on ARM systems: having all
> > platform devices declared (hard coded) in a file and load them. Which is
> > not a good solution, for the same reasons why arm stuff moved to
> > devicetree.
> > 
> > Is it clearer?
> > 
> > I do not know if it important to highlight but those cards are extensible,
> > potentially any FMC module could be plugged and this needs a different
> > FPGA, with different FPGA devices etc. So, It is not possible to hardcode
> > the description of all possible FPGA code (infinite) that can enable the
> > usage of all possible FMC module (not infinite, but definitively grater
> > than 1)
> > 
> > 
> > https://www.struck.de/sis8160.html
> > https://ohwr.org/project/spec/wikis/home
> > 
> > > >> This is achievable on ARM with DeviceTree, overlay-dt, fpga-mgr; but
> > > >> I'm
> > > >> puzzled about the x86_64 use-case. I'm not able to find recent and
> > > >> clear
> > > >> information.
> > > >> 
> > > >> Does anyone know if this is doable? Perhaps with ACPI SSDTs overlay?
> > > >> Or with
> > > >> the DT?
> > > >> 
> > > >> thanks
> 
> Thanks,
> Alan
> 
> [4] https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/driver-api/fpga/index.html
> [5] https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/Documentation/fpga/dfl.txt

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