lists  /  announce  owl-users  owl-dev  john-users  john-dev  passwdqc-users  yescrypt  popa3d-users  /  oss-security  kernel-hardening  musl  sabotage  tlsify  passwords  /  crypt-dev  xvendor  /  Bugtraq  Full-Disclosure  linux-kernel  linux-netdev  linux-ext4  PHC 
Open Source and information security mailing list archives
Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.
[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]
Date:   Thu, 6 Jun 2019 10:18:16 -0700
From:   Andy Lutomirski <>
To:     David Howells <>
Cc:     Al Viro <>,
        Casey Schaufler <>,,
        Linux FS Devel <>,
        Linux API <>,,,
        LSM List <>,
        LKML <>, Jann Horn <>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 01/10] security: Override creds in __fput() with last
 fputter's creds [ver #3]

On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 8:06 AM David Howells <> wrote:
> Andy Lutomirski <> wrote:
> > > So that the LSM can see the credentials of the last process to do an fput()
> > > on a file object when the file object is being dismantled, do the following
> > > steps:
> > >
> >
> > I still maintain that this is a giant design error.
> Yes, I know.  This was primarily a post so that Greg could play with the USB
> notifications stuff I added.  The LSM support isn't resolved and is unchanged.
> > Can someone at least come up with a single valid use case that isn't
> > entirely full of bugs?
> "Entirely full of bugs"?

I can say "hey, I have this policy that the person who triggered an
event needs such-and-such permission, otherwise the event gets
suppressed".  But this isn't a full use case, and it's buggy.  It's
not a full use case because I haven't specified what my actual goal is
and why this particular policy achieves my goals.  And it's entirely
full of bugs because, as this patch so nicely illustrates, it's not
well defined who triggered the event.  For example, if I exec a setuid
process, who triggers the close?  What if I send the fd to systemd
over a socket and immediately close my copy before systemd gets (and
ignores) the message?  Or if I send it to Wayland, or to any other

A file is closed when everyone is done with it.  Trying to figure out
who the last intentional user of the file was seems little better than
random guessing.  Defining a security policy based on it seems like a
poor idea.

> How would you propose I deal with Casey's requirement?  I'm getting the
> feeling you're going to nak it if I try to fulfil that and he's going to nak
> it if I don't.

Casey, I think you need to state your requirement in a way that's well
defined, and I think you need to make a compelling case that your
requirement is indeed worth dictating the design of parts of the
kernel outside LSM.

Powered by blists - more mailing lists