Message-ID: <20190726100716-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org>
Date:   Fri, 26 Jul 2019 10:10:52 -0400
From:   "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@...hat.com>
To:     Jason Wang <jasowang@...hat.com>
Cc:     syzbot <syzbot+e58112d71f77113ddb7b@...kaller.appspotmail.com>,
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        linux-arm-kernel@...ts.infradead.org, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
        linux-mm@...ck.org, linux-parisc@...r.kernel.org,
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        wad@...omium.org
Subject: Re: WARNING in __mmdrop

On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 10:00:20PM +0800, Jason Wang wrote:
> 
> On 2019/7/26 下午9:47, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> > On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 08:53:18PM +0800, Jason Wang wrote:
> > > On 2019/7/26 下午8:38, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> > > > On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 08:00:58PM +0800, Jason Wang wrote:
> > > > > On 2019/7/26 下午7:49, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> > > > > > On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 10:25:25PM +0800, Jason Wang wrote:
> > > > > > > On 2019/7/25 下午9:26, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Exactly, and that's the reason actually I use synchronize_rcu() there.
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > So the concern is still the possible synchronize_expedited()?
> > > > > > > > I think synchronize_srcu_expedited.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > synchronize_expedited sends lots of IPI and is bad for realtime VMs.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Can I do this
> > > > > > > > > on through another series on top of the incoming V2?
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > The question is this: is this still a gain if we switch to the
> > > > > > > > more expensive srcu? If yes then we can keep the feature on,
> > > > > > > I think we only care about the cost on srcu_read_lock() which looks pretty
> > > > > > > tiny form my point of view. Which is basically a READ_ONCE() + WRITE_ONCE().
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Of course I can benchmark to see the difference.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > if not we'll put it off until next release and think
> > > > > > > > of better solutions. rcu->srcu is just a find and replace,
> > > > > > > > don't see why we need to defer that. can be a separate patch
> > > > > > > > for sure, but we need to know how well it works.
> > > > > > > I think I get here, let me try to do that in V2 and let's see the numbers.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > It looks to me for tree rcu, its srcu_read_lock() have a mb() which is too
> > > > > expensive for us.
> > > > I will try to ponder using vq lock in some way.
> > > > Maybe with trylock somehow ...
> > > 
> > > Ok, let me retry if necessary (but I do remember I end up with deadlocks
> > > last try).
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > > If we just worry about the IPI,
> > > > With synchronize_rcu what I would worry about is that guest is stalled
> > > 
> > > Can this synchronize_rcu() be triggered by guest? If yes, there are several
> > > other MMU notifiers that can block. Is vhost something special here?
> > Sorry, let me explain: guests (and tasks in general)
> > can trigger activity that will
> > make synchronize_rcu take a long time.
> 
> 
> Yes, I get this.
> 
> 
> >   Thus blocking
> > an mmu notifier until synchronize_rcu finishes
> > is a bad idea.
> 
> 
> The question is, MMU notifier are allowed to be blocked on
> invalidate_range_start() which could be much slower than synchronize_rcu()
> to finish.
> 
> Looking at amdgpu_mn_invalidate_range_start_gfx() which calls
> amdgpu_mn_invalidate_node() which did:
> 
>                 r = reservation_object_wait_timeout_rcu(bo->tbo.resv,
>                         true, false, MAX_SCHEDULE_TIMEOUT);
> 
> ...
> 

Right. And the result will probably be VMs freezing/timing out, too.
It's just that we care about VMs more than the GPU guys :)


> > > > because system is busy because of other guests.
> > > > With expedited it's the IPIs...
> > > > 
> > > The current synchronize_rcu()  can force a expedited grace period:
> > > 
> > > void synchronize_rcu(void)
> > > {
> > >          ...
> > >          if (rcu_blocking_is_gp())
> > > return;
> > >          if (rcu_gp_is_expedited())
> > > synchronize_rcu_expedited();
> > > else
> > > wait_rcu_gp(call_rcu);
> > > }
> > > EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL(synchronize_rcu);
> > 
> > An admin can force rcu to finish faster, trading
> > interrupts for responsiveness.
> 
> 
> Yes, so when set, all each synchronize_rcu() will go for
> synchronize_rcu_expedited().

And that's bad for realtime things. I understand what you are saying,
host admin can set this and VMs won't time-out.  What I'm saying is we
should not make admins choose between two types of bugs. Tuning for
performance is fine.

> 
> > 
> > > > > can we do something like in
> > > > > vhost_invalidate_vq_start()?
> > > > > 
> > > > >           if (map) {
> > > > >                   /* In order to avoid possible IPIs with
> > > > >                    * synchronize_rcu_expedited() we use call_rcu() +
> > > > >                    * completion.
> > > > > */
> > > > > init_completion(&c.completion);
> > > > >                   call_rcu(&c.rcu_head, vhost_finish_vq_invalidation);
> > > > > wait_for_completion(&c.completion);
> > > > >                   vhost_set_map_dirty(vq, map, index);
> > > > > vhost_map_unprefetch(map);
> > > > >           }
> > > > > 
> > > > > ?
> > > > Why would that be faster than synchronize_rcu?
> > > 
> > > No faster but no IPI.
> > > 
> > Sorry I still don't see the point.
> > synchronize_rcu doesn't normally do an IPI either.
> > 
> 
> Not the case of when rcu_expedited is set. This can just 100% make sure
> there's no IPI.

Right but then the latency can be pretty big.

> 
> > > > 
> > > > > > There's one other thing that bothers me, and that is that
> > > > > > for large rings which are not physically contiguous
> > > > > > we don't implement the optimization.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > For sure, that can wait, but I think eventually we should
> > > > > > vmap large rings.
> > > > > Yes, worth to try. But using direct map has its own advantage: it can use
> > > > > hugepage that vmap can't
> > > > > 
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > Sure, so we can do that for small rings.
> > > 
> > > Yes, that's possible but should be done on top.
> > > 
> > > Thanks
> > Absolutely. Need to fix up the bugs first.
> > 
> 
> Yes.
> 
> Thanks

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