Message-ID: <CAJZ5v0ipG-MJjERBL9fjx29QktaYEKSmMCbWiEGPHsbF=Xfxtw@mail.gmail.com>
Date:   Fri, 2 Aug 2019 13:04:09 +0200
From:   "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rafael@...nel.org>
To:     Kai-Heng Feng <kai.heng.feng@...onical.com>
Cc:     "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rafael@...nel.org>,
        Mario Limonciello <Mario.Limonciello@...l.com>,
        Keith Busch <kbusch@...nel.org>,
        Keith Busch <keith.busch@...el.com>,
        Christoph Hellwig <hch@....de>,
        Sagi Grimberg <sagi@...mberg.me>,
        linux-nvme <linux-nvme@...ts.infradead.org>,
        Linux PM <linux-pm@...r.kernel.org>,
        Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        Rajat Jain <rajatja@...gle.com>
Subject: Re: [Regression] Commit "nvme/pci: Use host managed power state for
 suspend" has problems

On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 12:55 PM Kai-Heng Feng
<kai.heng.feng@...onical.com> wrote:
>
> at 06:26, Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael@...nel.org> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Aug 1, 2019 at 9:05 PM <Mario.Limonciello@...l.com> wrote:
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael@...nel.org>
> >>> Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2019 12:30 PM
> >>> To: Kai-Heng Feng; Keith Busch; Limonciello, Mario
> >>> Cc: Keith Busch; Christoph Hellwig; Sagi Grimberg; linux-nvme; Linux
> >>> PM; Linux
> >>> Kernel Mailing List; Rajat Jain
> >>> Subject: Re: [Regression] Commit "nvme/pci: Use host managed power
> >>> state for
> >>> suspend" has problems
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> [EXTERNAL EMAIL]
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Aug 1, 2019 at 11:06 AM Kai-Heng Feng
> >>> <kai.heng.feng@...onical.com> wrote:
> >>>> at 06:33, Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael@...nel.org> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, Aug 1, 2019 at 12:22 AM Keith Busch <kbusch@...nel.org> wrote:
> >>>>>> On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 11:25:51PM +0200, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> >>>>>>> A couple of remarks if you will.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> First, we don't know which case is the majority at this point.  For
> >>>>>>> now, there is one example of each, but it may very well turn out that
> >>>>>>> the SK Hynix BC501 above needs to be quirked.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Second, the reference here really is 5.2, so if there are any systems
> >>>>>>> that are not better off with 5.3-rc than they were with 5.2, well, we
> >>>>>>> have not made progress.  However, if there are systems that are worse
> >>>>>>> off with 5.3, that's bad.  In the face of the latest findings the
> >>>>>>> only
> >>>>>>> way to avoid that is to be backwards compatible with 5.2 and that's
> >>>>>>> where my patch is going.  That cannot be achieved by quirking all
> >>>>>>> cases that are reported as "bad", because there still may be
> >>>>>>> unreported ones.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I have to agree. I think your proposal may allow PCI D3cold,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Yes, it may.
> >>>>
> >>>> Somehow the 9380 with Toshiba NVMe never hits SLP_S0 with or without
> >>>> Rafael’s patch.
> >>>> But the “real” s2idle power consumption does improve with the patch.
> >>>
> >>> Do you mean this patch:
> >>>
> >>> https://lore.kernel.org/linux-pm/70D536BE-8DC7-4CA2-84A9-
> >>> AFB067BA520E@...onical.com/T/#m456aa5c69973a3b68f2cdd4713a1ce83be5145
> >>> 8f
> >>>
> >>> or the $subject one without the above?
> >>>
> >>>> Can we use a DMI based quirk for this platform? It seems like a platform
> >>>> specific issue.
> >>>
> >>> We seem to see too many "platform-specific issues" here. :-)
> >>>
> >>> To me, the status quo (ie. what we have in 5.3-rc2) is not defensible.
> >>> Something needs to be done to improve the situation.
> >>
> >> Rafael, would it be possible to try popping out PC401 from the 9380 and
> >> into a 9360 to
> >> confirm there actually being a platform impact or not?
> >
> > Not really, sorry.
> >
> >> I was hoping to have something useful from Hynix by now before
> >> responding, but oh well.
> >>
> >> In terms of what is the majority, I do know that between folks at Dell,
> >> Google, Compal,
> >> Wistron, Canonical, Micron, Hynix, Toshiba, LiteOn, and Western Digital
> >> we tested a wide
> >> variety of SSDs with this patch series.  I would like to think that they
> >> are representative of
> >> what's being manufactured into machines now.
> >
> > Well, what about drives already in the field?  My concern is mostly
> > about those ones.
> >
> >> Notably the LiteOn CL1 was tested with the HMB flushing support and
> >> and Hynix PC401 was tested with older firmware though.
> >>
> >>>>>> In which case we do need to reintroduce the HMB handling.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Right.
> >>>>
> >>>> The patch alone doesn’t break HMB Toshiba NVMe I tested. But I think
> >>>> it’s
> >>>> still safer to do proper HMB handling.
> >>>
> >>> Well, so can anyone please propose something specific?  Like an
> >>> alternative patch?
> >>
> >> This was proposed a few days ago:
> >> http://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/linux-nvme/2019-July/026056.html
> >>
> >> However we're still not sure why it is needed, and it will take some
> >> time to get
> >> a proper failure analysis from LiteOn  regarding the CL1.
> >
> > Thanks for the update, but IMO we still need to do something before
> > final 5.3 while the investigation continues.
> >
> > Honestly, at this point I would vote for going back to the 5.2
> > behavior at least by default and only running the new code on the
> > drives known to require it (because they will block PC10 otherwise).
> >
> > Possibly (ideally) with an option for users who can't get beyond PC3
> > to test whether or not the new code helps them.
>
> I just found out that the XPS 9380 at my hand never reaches SLP_S0 but only
> PC10.

That's the case for me too.

> This happens with or without putting the device to D3.

On my system, though, it only can get to PC3 without putting the NVMe
into D3 (as reported previously).

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