linux-kernel - Re: [PATCH 1/1] KVM: inject data abort if instruction cannot be decoded

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Message-ID: <86k1anrtmi.wl-maz@kernel.org>
Date:   Thu, 05 Sep 2019 10:15:49 +0100
From:   Marc Zyngier <maz@...nel.org>
To:     Peter Maydell <peter.maydell@...aro.org>
Cc:     Heinrich Schuchardt <xypron.glpk@....de>,
        James Morse <james.morse@....com>,
        Julien Thierry <julien.thierry@....com>,
        Suzuki K Pouloze <suzuki.poulose@....com>,
        Stefan Hajnoczi <stefanha@...hat.com>,
        "Daniel P . Berrangé" <berrange@...hat.com>,
        arm-mail-list <linux-arm-kernel@...ts.infradead.org>,
        kvmarm@...ts.cs.columbia.edu,
        lkml - Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/1] KVM: inject data abort if instruction cannot be decoded

On Thu, 05 Sep 2019 09:56:44 +0100,
Peter Maydell <peter.maydell@...aro.org> wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 5 Sep 2019 at 09:52, Marc Zyngier <maz@...nel.org> wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, 05 Sep 2019 09:16:54 +0100,
> > Peter Maydell <peter.maydell@...aro.org> wrote:
> > > This is true, but the problem is that barfing out to userspace
> > > makes it harder to debug the guest because it means that
> > > the VM is immediately destroyed, whereas AIUI if we
> > > inject some kind of exception then (assuming you're set up
> > > to do kernel-debug via gdbstub) you can actually examine
> > > the offending guest code with a debugger because at least
> > > your VM is still around to inspect...
> >
> > To Christoffer's point, I find the benefit a bit dubious. Yes, you get
> > an exception, but the instruction that caused it may be completely
> > legal (store with post-increment, for example), leading to an even
> > more puzzled developer (that exception should never have been
> > delivered the first place).
> 
> Right, but the combination of "host kernel prints a message
> about an unsupported load/store insn" and "within-guest debug
> dump/stack trace/etc" is much more useful than just having
> "host kernel prints message" and "QEMU exits"; and it requires
> about 3 lines of code change...

Which is wrong, and creates a new behaviour that isn't specified
anywhere.

> 
> > I'm far more in favour of dumping the state of the access in the run
> > structure (much like we do for a MMIO access) and let userspace do
> > something about it (such as dumping information on the console or
> > breaking). It could even inject an exception *if* the user has asked
> > for it.
> 
> ...whereas this requires agreement on a kernel-userspace API,
> larger changes in the kernel, somebody to implement the userspace
> side of things, and the user to update both the kernel and QEMU.
> It's hard for me to see that the benefit here over the 3-line
> approach really outweighs the extra effort needed.

3 lines that already require the host kernel to be updated, and create
a legacy that we'll never be able to get rid of.

> In practice saying "we should do this" is saying "we're going to do
> nothing", based on the historical record.

Thanks for the vote of confidence...

	M.

-- 
Jazz is not dead, it just smells funny.