Message-ID: <CACT4Y+YfkV80QF2qxjfHnBghM8Am8m_YHzCtPRfSmOrF-y3bbg@mail.gmail.com>
Date:   Mon, 23 Sep 2019 10:59:04 +0200
From:   Dmitry Vyukov <dvyukov@...gle.com>
To:     Boqun Feng <boqun.feng@...il.com>
Cc:     Will Deacon <will@...nel.org>, Marco Elver <elver@...gle.com>,
        kasan-dev <kasan-dev@...glegroups.com>,
        LKML <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        Andrey Konovalov <andreyknvl@...gle.com>,
        Alexander Potapenko <glider@...gle.com>,
        "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@...ux.ibm.com>,
        Paul Turner <pjt@...gle.com>, Daniel Axtens <dja@...ens.net>,
        Anatol Pomazau <anatol@...gle.com>,
        Andrea Parri <parri.andrea@...il.com>,
        Alan Stern <stern@...land.harvard.edu>,
        LKMM Maintainers -- Akira Yokosawa <akiyks@...il.com>,
        Nicholas Piggin <npiggin@...il.com>,
        Daniel Lustig <dlustig@...dia.com>,
        Jade Alglave <j.alglave@....ac.uk>,
        Luc Maranget <luc.maranget@...ia.fr>
Subject: Re: Kernel Concurrency Sanitizer (KCSAN)

On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 10:54 AM Boqun Feng <boqun.feng@...il.com> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 10:21:38AM +0200, Dmitry Vyukov wrote:
> > On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 6:31 AM Boqun Feng <boqun.feng@...il.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 04:54:21PM +0100, Will Deacon wrote:
> > > > Hi Marco,
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 04:18:57PM +0200, Marco Elver wrote:
> > > > > We would like to share a new data-race detector for the Linux kernel:
> > > > > Kernel Concurrency Sanitizer (KCSAN) --
> > > > > https://github.com/google/ktsan/wiki/KCSAN  (Details:
> > > > > https://github.com/google/ktsan/blob/kcsan/Documentation/dev-tools/kcsan.rst)
> > > > >
> > > > > To those of you who we mentioned at LPC that we're working on a
> > > > > watchpoint-based KTSAN inspired by DataCollider [1], this is it (we
> > > > > renamed it to KCSAN to avoid confusion with KTSAN).
> > > > > [1] http://usenix.org/legacy/events/osdi10/tech/full_papers/Erickson.pdf
> > > >
> > > > Oh, spiffy!
> > > >
> > > > > In the coming weeks we're planning to:
> > > > > * Set up a syzkaller instance.
> > > > > * Share the dashboard so that you can see the races that are found.
> > > > > * Attempt to send fixes for some races upstream (if you find that the
> > > > > kcsan-with-fixes branch contains an important fix, please feel free to
> > > > > point it out and we'll prioritize that).
> > > >
> > > > Curious: do you take into account things like alignment and/or access size
> > > > when looking at READ_ONCE/WRITE_ONCE? Perhaps you could initially prune
> > > > naturally aligned accesses for which __native_word() is true?
> > > >
> > > > > There are a few open questions:
> > > > > * The big one: most of the reported races are due to unmarked
> > > > > accesses; prioritization or pruning of races to focus initial efforts
> > > > > to fix races might be required. Comments on how best to proceed are
> > > > > welcome. We're aware that these are issues that have recently received
> > > > > attention in the context of the LKMM
> > > > > (https://lwn.net/Articles/793253/).
> > > >
> > > > This one is tricky. What I think we need to avoid is an onslaught of
> > > > patches adding READ_ONCE/WRITE_ONCE without a concrete analysis of the
> > > > code being modified. My worry is that Joe Developer is eager to get their
> > > > first patch into the kernel, so runs this tool and starts spamming
> > > > maintainers with these things to the point that they start ignoring KCSAN
> > > > reports altogether because of the time they take up.
> > > >
> > > > I suppose one thing we could do is to require each new READ_ONCE/WRITE_ONCE
> > > > to have a comment describing the racy access, a bit like we do for memory
> > > > barriers. Another possibility would be to use atomic_t more widely if
> > > > there is genuine concurrency involved.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Instead of commenting READ_ONCE/WRITE_ONCE()s, how about adding
> > > anotations for data fields/variables that might be accessed without
> > > holding a lock? Because if all accesses to a variable are protected by
> > > proper locks, we mostly don't need to worry about data races caused by
> > > not using READ_ONCE/WRITE_ONCE(). Bad things happen when we write to a
> > > variable using locks but read it outside a lock critical section for
> > > better performance, for example, rcu_node::qsmask. I'm thinking so maybe
> > > we can introduce a new annotation similar to __rcu, maybe call it
> > > __lockfree ;-) as follow:
> > >
> > >         struct rcu_node {
> > >                 ...
> > >                 unsigned long __lockfree qsmask;
> > >                 ...
> > >         }
> > >
> > > , and __lockfree indicates that by design the maintainer of this data
> > > structure or variable believe there will be accesses outside lock
> > > critical sections. Note that not all accesses to __lockfree field, need
> > > to be READ_ONCE/WRITE_ONCE(), if the developer manages to build a
> > > complex but working wake/wait state machine so that it could not be
> > > accessed in the same time, READ_ONCE()/WRITE_ONCE() is not needed.
> > >
> > > If we have such an annotation, I think it won't be hard for configuring
> > > KCSAN to only examine accesses to variables with this annotation. Also
> > > this annotation could help other checkers in the future.
> > >
> > > If KCSAN (at the least the upstream version) only check accesses with
> > > such an anotation, "spamming with KCSAN warnings/fixes" will be the
> > > choice of each maintainer ;-)
> > >
> > > Thoughts?
> >
> > But doesn't this defeat the main goal of any race detector -- finding
> > concurrent accesses to complex data structures, e.g. forgotten
> > spinlock around rbtree manipulation? Since rbtree is not meant to
> > concurrent accesses, it won't have __lockfree annotation, and thus we
> > will ignore races on it...
>
> Maybe, but for forgotten locks detection, we already have lockdep and
> also sparse can help a little.

They don't do this at all, or to the necessary degree.

> Having a __lockfree annotation could be
> benefical for KCSAN to focus on checking the accesses whose race
> conditions could only be detected by KCSAN at this time. I think this
> could help KCSAN find problem more easily (and fast).
>
> Out of curiosity, does KCSAN ever find a problem with forgotten locks
> involved? I didn't see any in the -with-fixes branch (that's
> understandable, given the seriousness, the fixes of this kind of
> problems could already be submitted to upstream once KCSAN found it.)

This one comes to mind:
https://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-mm/msg92677.html

Maybe some others here, but I don't remember which ones now:
https://github.com/google/ktsan/wiki/KTSAN-Found-Bugs

Powered by blists - more mailing lists