linux-kernel - RE: [RFC PATCH 17/22] thunderbolt: Add initial support for USB4

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Message-ID: <924ce4d5862c4d859e238c0e706a3d5b@AUSX13MPC105.AMER.DELL.COM>
Date:   Tue, 1 Oct 2019 14:59:06 +0000
From:   <Mario.Limonciello@...l.com>
To:     <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>, <mika.westerberg@...ux.intel.com>
CC:     <linux-usb@...r.kernel.org>, <andreas.noever@...il.com>,
        <michael.jamet@...el.com>, <YehezkelShB@...il.com>,
        <rajmohan.mani@...el.com>,
        <nicholas.johnson-opensource@...look.com.au>, <lukas@...ner.de>,
        <stern@...land.harvard.edu>, <anthony.wong@...onical.com>,
        <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: RE: [RFC PATCH 17/22] thunderbolt: Add initial support for USB4



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 9:54 AM
> To: Mika Westerberg
> Cc: linux-usb@...r.kernel.org; Andreas Noever; Michael Jamet; Yehezkel Bernat;
> Rajmohan Mani; Nicholas Johnson; Lukas Wunner; Alan Stern; Limonciello, Mario;
> Anthony Wong; linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org
> Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 17/22] thunderbolt: Add initial support for USB4
> 
> 
> [EXTERNAL EMAIL]
> 
> On Tue, Oct 01, 2019 at 04:09:05PM +0300, Mika Westerberg wrote:
> > On Tue, Oct 01, 2019 at 02:47:48PM +0200, Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote:
> > > > -	  Thunderbolt Controller driver. This driver is required if you
> > > > -	  want to hotplug Thunderbolt devices on Apple hardware or on PCs
> > > > -	  with Intel Falcon Ridge or newer.
> > > > +	  USB4 (Thunderbolt) driver. USB4 is the public spec based on
> > > > +	  Thunderbolt 3 protocol. This driver is required if you want to
> > > > +	  hotplug Thunderbolt and USB4 compliant devices on Apple
> > > > +	  hardware or on PCs with Intel Falcon Ridge or newer.
> > >
> > > Wait, did "old" thunderbolt just get re-branded as USB4?
> >
> > Not but the driver started supporting USB4 as well :)
> >
> > USB4 is pretty much public spec of Thunderbolt 3 but with some
> > differences in register layouts (this is because Thunderbolt uses some
> > vendor specific capabilities which are now moved to more "standard"
> > places).
> 
> Ok, then we need to rename the Kconfig option as well, otherwise no one
> will "know" that this changed, so they will not be prompted for it.
> 
> > > Because if I have an "old" laptop that needs Thunderbolt support, how am
> > > I going to know it is now called USB4 instead?
> >
> > Well the Kconfig option tries to have both names there:
> >
> >   tristate "USB4 (Thunderbolt) support"
> >
> > and then
> >
> >   USB4 (Thunderbolt) driver. USB4 is the public spec based on
> >   Thunderbolt 3 protocol. This driver is required if you want to hotplug
> >   Thunderbolt and USB4 compliant devices on Apple hardware or on PCs
> >   with Intel Falcon Ridge or newer.
> >
> > and the Kconfig option is still CONFIG_THUNDERBOLT. I know this is
> > confusing but I don't have better ideas how we can advertise both. I
> > borrowed this "format" from firewire.
> 
> CONFIG_USB4 instead?

How about CONFIG_USB4_PCIE?

I think that will help align that certain aspects of USB4 can be built optionally.

> 
> > > Shouldn't there just be a new USB4 option that only enables/builds the
> > > USB4 stuff if selected?  Why would I want all of this additional code on
> > > my old system if it's not going to do anything at all?
> >
> > USB4 devices are backward compatible with Thunderbolt 3 so you should be
> > able to plug in USB4 device to your old Thunderbolt 3 laptop for
> > example. It goes the other way as well. Some things are optional but for
> > example USB4 hubs must support also Thunderbolt 3.
> >

If PCIe tunnels are an optional feature in USB4, how can it be mandatory to support
Thunderbolt 3?

> > Does that clarify?
> 
> Yes, it does, looks like marketing just renamed an old functioning
> system into a "brand new one!" :)
> 
> thanks,
> 
> greg k-h