Date:   Tue, 22 Oct 2019 15:53:00 -0700
From:   Luigi Semenzato <semenzato@...gle.com>
To:     "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rafael@...nel.org>
Cc:     linux-kernel <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        Linux PM <linux-pm@...r.kernel.org>,
        Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
        Geoff Pike <gpike@...gle.com>, Bas Nowaira <bassem@...gle.com>,
        Sonny Rao <sonnyrao@...gle.com>,
        Brian Geffon <bgeffon@...gle.com>
Subject: Re: is hibernation usable?

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 3:14 PM Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael@...nel.org> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 11:26 PM Luigi Semenzato <semenzato@...gle.com> wrote:
> >
> > Thank you for the quick reply!
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 1:57 PM Rafael J. Wysocki <rafael@...nel.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Tue, Oct 22, 2019 at 10:09 PM Luigi Semenzato <semenzato@...gle.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Following a thread in linux-pm
> > > > (https://marc.info/?l=linux-mm&m=157012300901871) I have some issues
> > > > that may be of general interest.
> > > >
> > > > 1. To the best of my knowledge, Linux hibernation is guaranteed to
> > > > fail if more than 1/2 of total RAM is in use (for instance, by
> > > > anonymous pages).  My knowledge is based on evidence, experiments,
> > > > code inspection, the thread above, and a comment in
> > > > Documentation/swsusp.txt, copied here:
> > >
> > > So I use it on a regular basis (i.e. every day) on a system that often
> > > has over 50% or RAM in use and it all works.
> > >
> > > I also know about other people using it on a regular basis.
> > >
> > > For all of these users, it is usable.
> > >
> > > >  "Instead, we load the image into unused memory and then atomically
> > > > copy it back to it original location. This implies, of course, a
> > > > maximum image size of half the amount of memory."
> > >
> > > That isn't right any more.  An image that is loaded during resume can,
> > > in fact, be larger than 50% of RAM.  An image that is created during
> > > hibernation, however, cannot.
> >
> > Sorry, I don't understand this.  Are you saying that, for instance,
> > you can resume a 30 GB image on a 32 GB device, but that image could
> > only have been created on a 64 GB device?
>
> Had it been possible to create images larger than 50% of memory during
> hibernation, it would have been possible to load them during resume as
> well.
>
> The resume code doesn't have a 50% of RAM limitation, the image
> creation code does.

Thanks a lot for the clarifications.

It is possible that you and I have different definitions of "working
in general".  My main issue ia that I would like image creation (i.e.
entering hibernation) to work with >50% of RAM in use, and I am
extrapolating that other people would like that too.  I can see that
there are many uses where this is not needed though, especially if you
mostly care about resume.

>
> > > > 2. There's no simple/general workaround.  Rafael suggested on the
> > > > thread "Whatever doesn't fit into 50% of RAM needs to be swapped out
> > > > before hibernation".  This is a good suggestion: I am actually close
> > > > to achieving this using memcgroups, but it's a fair amount of work,
> > > > and a fairly special case.  Not everybody uses memcgroups, and I don't
> > > > know of other reliable ways of forcing swap from user level.
> > >
> > > I don't need to do anything like that.
> >
> > Again, I don't understand.  Why did you make that suggestion then?
> >
> > > hibernate_preallocate_memory() manages to free a sufficient amount of
> > > memory on my system every time.
> >
> > Unfortunately this doesn't work for me.  I may have described a simple
> > experiment: on a 4GB device, create two large processes like this:
> >
> > dd if=/dev/zero bs=1100M count=1 | sleep infinity &
> > dd if=/dev/zero bs=1100M count=1 | sleep infinity &
> >
> > so that more than 50% of TotalMem is used for anonymous pages.  Then
> > echo disk > /sys/power/state fails with ENOMEM.
>
> I guess hibernate_preallocate_memory() is not able to free enough
> memory for itself in that case.
>
> > Is this supposed to work?
>
> Yes, it is, in general.
>
> > Maybe I am doing something wrong?
> > Hibernation works before I create the dd processes.  After I force
> > some of those pages to a separate swap device, hibernation works too,
> > so those pages aren't mlocked or anything.
>
> It looks like you are doing something that is not covered by
> hibernate_preallocate_memory().
>
> > > > 3. A feature that works only when 1/2 of total RAM can be allocated
> > > > is, in my opinion, not usable, except possibly under special
> > > > circumstances, such as mine. Most of the available articles and
> > > > documentation do not mention this important fact (but for the excerpt
> > > > I mentioned, which is not in a prominent position).
> > >
> > > It can be used with over 1/2 of RAM allocated and that is quite easy
> > > to demonstrate.
> > >
> > > Honestly, I'm not sure what your problem is really.
> >
> > I apologize if I am doing something stupid and I should know better
> > before I waste other people's time.  I have been trying to explain
> > these issues as best as I can.  I have a reproducible failure.  I'll
> > be happy to provide any additional detail.
>
> Simply put, hibernation, as implemented today, needs to allocate over
> 50% of RAM (or at least as much as to be able to copy all of the
> non-free pages) for image creation.  If it cannot do that, it will
> fail and you know how to prevent it from allocating enough memory in a
> reproducible way.  AFAICS that's a situation in which every attempt to
> allocate 50% of memory for any other purpose will fail as well.
>
> Frankly, you are first to report this problem, so it arguably is not
> common.  It looks like hibernate_preallocate_memory() may be improved
> to cover that case, but then the question is how much more complicated
> it will have to become for this purpose and whether or not that's
> worth pursuing.

Right.  I was hoping to discuss that.  Is it easier to do in the
kernel what I am trying to do at user level, i.e. force swap of excess
pages (possibly to a separate device or partition) so that enough
pages are freed up to make hibernate_preallocate_memory always
succeed?  I started reading the swap code, but it is entangled with
page reclaim and I haven't seen a simple solution, neither do I know
if there is one and how long it would take to find it, or code around
it.  (However I haven't looked yet at how it works when memcgroup
limits are lowered---that may give me good ideas).

Thanks!


>
> > >
> > > > Two questions then:
> > > >
> > > > A. Should the documentation be changed to reflect this fact more
> > > > clearly?  I feel that the current situation is a disservice to the
> > > > user community.
> > >
> > > Propose changes.
> >
> > Sure, after we resolve the above questions.
> >
> > > > B. Would it be worthwhile to improve the hibernation code to remove
> > > > this limitation?  Is this of interest to anybody (other than me)?
> > >
> > > Again, propose specific changes.

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