Message-ID: <8974a3974377d0623ed968563b035e701191440e.camel@fi.rohmeurope.com>
Date:   Wed, 23 Oct 2019 08:37:34 +0000
From:   "Vaittinen, Matti" <Matti.Vaittinen@...rohmeurope.com>
To:     "mazziesaccount@...il.com" <mazziesaccount@...il.com>,
        "dmurphy@...com" <dmurphy@...com>,
        "jacek.anaszewski@...il.com" <jacek.anaszewski@...il.com>
CC:     "linux-leds@...r.kernel.org" <linux-leds@...r.kernel.org>,
        "linux-rtc@...r.kernel.org" <linux-rtc@...r.kernel.org>,
        "linux-gpio@...r.kernel.org" <linux-gpio@...r.kernel.org>,
        "linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        "alexandre.belloni@...tlin.com" <alexandre.belloni@...tlin.com>,
        "mturquette@...libre.com" <mturquette@...libre.com>,
        "lgirdwood@...il.com" <lgirdwood@...il.com>,
        "devicetree@...r.kernel.org" <devicetree@...r.kernel.org>,
        "linus.walleij@...aro.org" <linus.walleij@...aro.org>,
        "a.zummo@...ertech.it" <a.zummo@...ertech.it>,
        "mark.rutland@....com" <mark.rutland@....com>,
        "robh+dt@...nel.org" <robh+dt@...nel.org>,
        "bgolaszewski@...libre.com" <bgolaszewski@...libre.com>,
        "linux-clk@...r.kernel.org" <linux-clk@...r.kernel.org>,
        "lee.jones@...aro.org" <lee.jones@...aro.org>,
        "pavel@....cz" <pavel@....cz>,
        "broonie@...nel.org" <broonie@...nel.org>,
        "sboyd@...nel.org" <sboyd@...nel.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 11/13] led: bd71828: Support LED outputs on ROHM
 BD71828 PMIC

Morning Jacek,

Thanks for the reply again. I did some cleaning to this mail as it was
getting lengthy.

On Tue, 2019-10-22 at 19:40 +0200, Jacek Anaszewski wrote:
> Matti,
> 
> On 10/22/19 2:40 PM, Vaittinen, Matti wrote:
> > Hello Jacek,
> > 
> > Thanks for the clarifications. I think I now understand the LED
> > subsystem a bit better :)
> > 
> > On Mon, 2019-10-21 at 21:09 +0200, Jacek Anaszewski wrote:
> > > Hi Matti,
> > > 
> > > On 10/21/19 10:00 AM, Vaittinen, Matti wrote:
> > > > Hello Dan,
> > > > 
> > > > Thanks for taking the time to check my driver :) I truly
> > > > appreciate
> > > > all
> > > > the help!
> > > > 
> > > > A "fundamental question" regarding these review comments is
> > > > whether
> > > > I
> > > > should add DT entries for these LEDs or not. I thought I
> > > > shouldn't
> > > > but
> > > > I would like to get a comment from Rob regarding it.
> > > 
> > > If the LED controller is a part of MFD device probed from DT then
> > > there is no doubt it should have corresponding DT sub-node.
> > 
> > Sorry but I still see no much benefit from adding this information
> > in
> > DT. Why should it have corresponding DT-node if the LED properties
> > are
> > fixed and if we only wish to allow user-space control and have no
> > dependencies to other devices in DT? 
> > 
> > In this specific case the information we can provide from DT is
> > supposed to be fixed. No board based variation. Furthermore, there
> > is
> > not much generic driver/led core functionality which would be able
> > to
> > parse and utilize relevant information from DT. I think we can only
> > give the name (function) and colour. And they are supposed to be
> > fixed
> > and thus could be just hard-coded in driver. Hard-coding these
> > would be
> > simpler and less error prone for users (no DT bindings to write)
> > and
> > simpler to create and probably also to maintain (no separate
> > binding
> > documents needed for LEDs).
> 
> AFAICS it is possible to connect LED of arbitrary color to the iouts
> of this device. If this is the case then it is justified to have DT
> node only to allow for LED name customization.

In theory, yes. In practice (if I understand it correctly) the color in
this case is only visible in sysfs path name. I am not at all sure that
reflecting the (unlikely) color change in path name is worth the
hassle. Besides - if this happens, then the driver and DT can be
changed. It is easier to add DT entries than remove them. If you see
the color change support as really crucial - then I could even consider
defaulting the colours to amber and green if no colour property is
present in DT. I see no point in _requiring_ the DT entry to be there.
If we like being prepared for the theoretical possibilities - what if
x86 is used to control this PMIC? I guess we wouldn't have DT there
then (And no - I don't see such use-case).

> > But assuming this is Ok to DT-folks and if you insist - I will add
> > LED
> > information to DT for the next patches. Hopefully this extra
> > complexity
> > helps in some oddball use-case which I can't foresee =)
> > 
> > Then what comes to the DT format.
> > 
> > Do you think LED subsystem should try to follow the convention with
> > other sub-systems and not introduce multiple compatibles for single
> > device? MFD can handle instantiating the sub-devices just fine even
> > when sub-devices have no own compatible property or of_match. Maybe
> > we
> > should also avoid unnecessary sub-nodes when they are not really
> > required.
> 
> This is beyond my scope of responsibility. It is MFD subsystem thing
> to
> choose the way of LED class driver instantiation. When it comes to
> LED subsystem - it expects single compatible pertaining to a physical
> device.

Sorry but I don't quite follow. What the LED subsystem does with the
compatible property? How does it expect this?

> Nonetheless, so far we used to have separate compatibles for drivers
> of
> MFD devices' LED cells. If we are going to change that I'd like to
> see
> explicit DT maintainer's statement confirming that.

I don't expect that existing DTs would be changed. But as I said, the
consensus amongst most of the subsystenm maintainers and DT maintainers
seems to be that sub-devices should not have own compatibles. I hope
Rob acks this here - but knowing he is a busy guy I add some old
discussions from which I have gathered my understanding:

BD71837 - first patch where regulators had compatible - Mark (regulator
maintainer instructed me to drop it):
https://lore.kernel.org/linux-clk/20180524140118.GS4828@sirena.org.uk/

And here Stephen (the clk subsystem maintainer) told me to drop whole
clocks sub-node (including the compatible):
https://lore.kernel.org/linux-clk/152777867392.144038.18188452389972834689@swboyd.mtv.corp.google.com/


> And one benefit of having separate nodes per MFD cells is that we can
> easily discern the support for which cells is to be turned on.

We don't want to do DT modifications to drop some sub-device support
out. The DT is HW description and sub-blocks are still there. We drop
the support by KConfig. Only 'configuration' we could bring from DT is
the amount of connected LEDs (as you said). But on the other hand -
whether preparing for such unlikely design is reasonable (or needed) is
questionable.

> > 	pmic: pmic@4b {
> > 		compatible = "rohm,bd71828";
> > 		reg = <0x4b>;
> > 		interrupt-parent = <&gpio1>;
> > 		interrupts = <29 GPIO_ACTIVE_LOW>;
> > 		clocks = <&osc 0>;
> > 		#clock-cells = <0>;
> > 		clock-output-names = "bd71828-32k-out";
> > 		gpio-controller;
> > 		#gpio-cells = <2>;
> > 		ngpios = <4>;
> > 		gpio-reserved-ranges = <0 1 2 1>;
> > 		gpio-line-names = "EPDEN";
> > 		rohm,dvs-vsel-gpios = <&gpio1 12 0>,
> > 				      <&gpio1 13 0>;
> > 		regulators {
> > 			...
> > 		};
> > 		
> > 		chg-led {
> > 			function = LED_FUNCTION_CHARGING;
> > 			color = LED_COLOR_ID_AMBER;
> > 		};
> > 
> > 		pwr-led {
> > 			function = LED_FUNCTION_POWER;
> > 			color = LED_COLOR_ID_GREEN;
> > 		};
> 
> This way you would probably need to probe LED class driver twice,
> instead of letting it behave in a standard way and parse child LED
> nodes.

No. Please note that probing the MFD sub-drivers is _not_ bound to
device-tree nodes. MFD sub-devices can be probed just fine even if they
have no DT entries. When we add MFD cell for LED driver, the
corresponding LED driver is probed. No DT magic needed for this.

What the LED driver (as other sub-device drivers) is required to do is
to obtain the pointer to parent device's DT node and find information
which is relevant for it. Ideally, the subsystem framework can extract
the properties which are common for whole subsystem (like color and
function in case of LEDs) and driver only parses the DT if it has some
custom properties. Again, ideally the driver has sane defaults - or
some other 'platform data' mechanism if no DT information is found.
There is architectures which do not support DT.

In case of BD71828 LEDs my first idea was to go with only the 'sane
defaults' option as I saw no much configurability. The DT snippet above
contains LED information as per your suggestion.

What the LED sub driver for BD71828 would now do is calling 
devm_led_classdev_register_ext with the DT information of BD71828
device. Eg, it should use the MFD dt node (because this is the real
device) and not just part of it. devm_led_classdev_register_ext should
then extract the LED specific information. I have not checked the
implementation of devm_led_classdev_register_ext in details - but it
should ignore non led properties and just walk through the LED
information and create the sysfs interfaces etc. for all LEDs it finds.
(In my example this is the chg-led and pwr-led sub-nodes). Furthermore,
if no LED information is found from DT I would expect
devm_led_classdev_register_ext to fail with well-defined return value
so that the driver could do what it now does - Eg, use "sane defaults"
to register the default class-devices for green and amber LEDs. The
default led class dev naming should of course be same format as it
would be if DT was populated with green and amber led information. 

> > 	};
> > 
> > How do you see this? Or do you really wish to have this one extra
> > node:
> > 
> > 	pmic: pmic@4b {
> > 		compatible = "rohm,bd71828";
> > 		
> > reg = <0x4b>;
> > 		interrupt-parent = <&gpio1>;
> > 		interru
> > pts = <29 GPIO_ACTIVE_LOW>;
> > 		clocks = <&osc 0>;
> > 		
> > #clock-cells = <0>;
> > 		clock-output-names = "bd71828-32k-out";
> > 		gpio-controller;
> > 		#gpio-cells = <2>;
> > 	
> > 	ngpios = <4>;
> > 		gpio-reserved-ranges = <0 1 2 1>;
> > 	
> > 	gpio-line-names = "EPDEN";
> > 		rohm,dvs-vsel-gpios =
> > <&gpio1 12 0>,
> > 				      <&gpio1 13 0>;
> > 		
> > regulators {
> > 			...
> > 		};
> > 		
> > 		leds-dummy {
> 
> Why leds-dummy ?

Because there is no real led controller device in any "MFD bus". It is
just one MFD device with controls for two LEDs. 

> The convention is to have led-controller@...t-address as the parent
> LED
> controller node.

What is the unit address here? 0x4b is the I2C slave address and it is
the MFD node address. There is no addressing for LED controller as
there is no separate LED controller device. There is only one device,
the PMIC which is MFD device as it has multiple functions meld in. One
of these functions is LED control and requires LED driver.

> > 			chg-led {
> s/chg-led/led0/
> 
> > 				function = LED_FUNCTION_CHARGING;
> > 				color = LED_COLOR_ID_AMBER;
> > 			};
> > 
> > 			pwr-led {
> 
> s/pwr-led/led1/
> 
> This is ePAPR requirement that DT node name should describe the
> general class of device.

Thanks. I had some problems with these node names as I wanted to make
them generic (led) but also to include some information what leds they
are. A bit same idea as I see in node names like "chan1" and "chan345"
that are used in ti-lmu bindings I checked for the example. But I am
fine with renaming them in this example! I just don't think we should
have this extra node as I mentioned.

> 
> > 				function = LED_FUNCTION_POWER;
> > 				color = LED_COLOR_ID_GREEN;
> > 			};
> 
> Common LED bindings say this is the proper way to go. However you
> would need compatible to probe LED class driver in DT based way.

No. I don't. MFD will probe the LED class driver as long as the name of
the driver matches to MFD cell name. So we only need MFD driver to be
probed based on the compatible. Rest of the sub-device drivers will be
probed by MFD. What I am missing is MODULE_ALIAS in LED driver for
loading the module when MFD is searching for it if it is not modprobed
via scripts or built in-kernel. I have understood this is the standard
way with MFD nowadays - I am positive Lee will kick me if I am wrong ;)
(I think I have bullied him that much in the past :/ )

> If you plan to do it otherwise then it makes no sense to have
> DT nodes for LEDs.

That was my point. This is why I did not have LEDs in DT in first
place. But as I said above - as a result of this discussion I have
started thinking that maybe I could check if I can easily add support
for providing LED information also via DT and fall back to defaults if
no LED information is found. (to allow color change or to omit one of
the LEDs as you suggested)

> > > > > > diff --git a/drivers/leds/Kconfig b/drivers/leds/Kconfig
> > > > > > index b0fdeef10bd9..ec59f28bcb39 100644
> > > > > > --- a/drivers/leds/Kconfig
> > > > > > +++ b/drivers/leds/Kconfig
> > > > > > @@ -529,6 +529,16 @@ config LEDS_BD2802
> > > > > >   	  This option enables support for BD2802GU RGB LED
> > > > > > driver chips
> > > > > >   	  accessed via the I2C bus.
> > > > > >   
> > > > > > +config LEDS_BD71828
> > > > > > +	tristate "LED driver for LED pins on ROHM BD71828 PMIC"
> > > > > > +	depends on LEDS_CLASS
> > > > > doesn't this have a dependency on MFD_ROHM_BD71828
> > > > > > +	depends on I2C
> > > > > > +	help
> > > > > > +	  This option enables support for LED outputs located
> > > > > > on ROHM
> > > > > > +	   BD71828 power management IC. ROHM BD71828 has two
> > > > > > led output
> > > > > > pins
> > > > > > +	   which can be left to indicate HW states or
> > > > > > controlled by SW.
> > > > > > Say
> > > > > > +	   yes here if you want to enable SW control for these
> > > > > > LEDs.
> > > > > > +
> > > > > 
> > > > > Add module statement
> > > > 
> > > > What is the module statement? Do you mean the 'if you compile
> > > > this
> > > > as a
> > > > module it will be called blahblah' or 'choose M to blahblah'?
> > > > 
> > > > I've never understood why some entries have those statements.
> > > > 'Choose
> > > > M' stuff is help for config system - why should each module
> > > > explain
> > > > how
> > > > to use configs? This information should be in more generic
> > > > documentation. Furthermore, the 'tristate' there already says
> > > > you
> > > > can
> > > > compile this as a module. Module name on the other hand really
> > > > is
> > > > module's property but it may well change if one changes the
> > > > name of
> > > > the
> > > > file. That should not require change in KConfig. Furthermore,
> > > > where
> > > > do
> > > > you need the module name? And if you really need the module
> > > > name
> > > > you
> > > > should check the config name from Makefile to be sure -
> > > > module/file
> > > > names in comments or docs tend to get outdated.
> > > > 
> > > > After all this being said - I can add any boilerplate text in
> > > > KConfig
> > > > if necessary - I just see zero benefit from this. And if you
> > > > didn't
> > > > mean this - can you then please tell me what is the module
> > > > statement?
> > > 
> > > Yes, like you noticed, this is boilerplate so please follow the
> > > convention. If you'd like to discuss its relevance please submit
> > > a message to kernel-janitors@...r.kernel.org.
> > 
> > I did follow the convention. There is 67 tristated LED drivers
> > which do
> > NOT add this module building babbling in description. Then there is
> > 14
> > drivers which do. So common convention even in LED subsystem is to
> > NOT
> > include meaningless mumbojumbo there.
> > 
> > So even regarding convention it is better to have short description
> > to
> > the point. That actually makes the requiring boilerplate even more
> > useless. But as I said, I can put any meaningless letters there.
> > (again, if I can't convince you to reconsider how you like the LED
> > subsystem to appear like). Knowing how hard it is to help people
> > reducing waste - it's may be easier for me than discussing this
> > further
> > :(
> 
> I will not insist - it's up to you. Unless Dan who raised the
> issue sees that differently.

Thanks :) Dan, I would like to hear your thoughts on this - do you
still think this is a fatal issue for you?

> > > > > > +#define BD71828_LED_TO_DATA(l) ((l)->id == ID_GREEN_LED ?
> > > > > > \
> > > > > > +	container_of((l), struct bd71828_leds, green) : \
> > > > > > +	container_of((l), struct bd71828_leds, amber))
> > > > > 
> > > > > I don't think we should be defining the color as the
> > > > > variable.
> > > > > The 
> > > > > outputs can drive any color LED.
> > > > 
> > > > I used the colors mentioned in BD71828 data-sheet. It is true
> > > > someone
> > > > might use different LEDs on their board but at least this
> > > > naming
> > > > allows
> > > > one to match the output to one in data-sheet. I can add comment
> > > > explaining this if you thin it's worth mentioning.
> > > 
> > > I see you've come up with below definitions in rohm-bd71828.h:
> > > 
> > > #define BD71828_MASK_LED_AMBER		0x80
> > > #define BD71828_MASK_LED_GREEN		0x40
> > > 
> > > Is this how those bit fields are named in the data sheet?
> > 
> > The leds are through the document referred as "GRNLED" and
> > "AMBLED".
> > These specific bits are named "AMBLED_FORCE_ON" and
> > "GRNLED_FORCE_ON".
> 
> OK, so then it's reasonable to use those names in the driver.
> I would only add a comment next to the definitions, highlighting
> that their names don't imply the scope of supported colors as this is
> entirely irrelevant.

I'll add a note here. 

> 
> > > > > > +
> > > > > > +	bd71828 = dev_get_drvdata(pdev->dev.parent);
> > > > > > +	l = devm_kzalloc(&pdev->dev, sizeof(*l), GFP_KERNEL);
> > > > > > +	if (!l)
> > > > > > +		return -ENOMEM;
> > > > > > +	l->bd71828 = bd71828;
> > > > > > +	a = &l->amber;
> > > > > > +	g = &l->green;
> > > > > > +	a->id = ID_AMBER_LED;
> > > > > > +	g->id = ID_GREEN_LED;
> > > > > > +	a->force_mask = BD71828_MASK_LED_AMBER;
> > > > > > +	g->force_mask = BD71828_MASK_LED_GREEN;
> > > > > > +
> > > > > > +	a->l.name = ANAME;
> > > > > > +	g->l.name = GNAME;
> > > > > > +	a->l.brightness_set_blocking =
> > > > > > bd71828_led_brightness_set;
> > > > > > +	g->l.brightness_set_blocking =
> > > > > > bd71828_led_brightness_set;
> > > > > > +
> > > > > > +	ret = devm_led_classdev_register(&pdev->dev, &g->l);
> > > > > > +	if (ret)
> > > > > > +		return ret;
> > > > > > +
> > > > > > +	return devm_led_classdev_register(&pdev->dev, &a->l);
> > > 
> > > This way you force users to always register two LED class devices
> > > whereas they might need only one. Please compare how other LED
> > > class
> > > drivers handle DT parsing and LED class device registration.
> > 
> > I am not sure if I understand correctly what you mean by using only
> > one
> > class device. As I (hopefully) somewhere said - users can't control
> > only one of these LEDs. If they decide to enable one led by SW,
> > then
> > they inevitably control also the other. Thus it is better that user
> > gets control to both of the LEDs if they take the control for one.
> > 
> > Or do you mean I could achieve the control for both of these LEDs
> > via
> > only one class device?
> 
> AFAIU the LEDs, when in SW mode, can be controlled independently,
> right?

Yes and no. Both of the LEDs can be forced on/off individually - as
long as one of them is forced ON. If both LEDs are tried to be forced
OFF - then both LEDs are controlled by HW. If both are controlled by HW
and then one is forced ON - the other is also no longer controlled by
HW and is forced OFF.

Eg, bits 0x80 and 0x40 are conrols for these LEDs. 0x80 for one, 0x40
for the other. Setting bit means LED is on, clearing means LED is off -
with the HW control twist... If either of the bits is set - then both
leds are controlled by these bits (SW control). If both bits are
cleared, then LEDs are controlled by HW (likely to be off but not for
sure).

> Because if not then there is no point in having separate LED class
> devices.
> 
> But if I get it right, then allowing for registering only one LED
> class
> device is entirely justifiable - think of a situation when the iout
> remains not connected on the board.

Yes. This might be unlikely - but this is the reason why I consider
adding the DT support. I just am not sure if covering this scenario now
is worth the hassle. I tend to think we should only add the DT support
if someone actually produces a board where this LED is not connected.

> > Yet another thing for me to learn =) I looked at the trigger
> > properties
> > in DT. That looked like a way to make the LED framework to "bind"
> > the
> > LED state to some trigger. (For example make the LED framework to
> > toggle specific LED state when USB device is plugged?)
> > 
> > If this is the case then it might not be relevant for BD71828. Here
> > the
> > LED is by-default controlled by HW. Eg, when charger starts
> > charging
> > the battery, the PMIC will lit the LED. It will do so also when
> > power
> > button is pressed or certain problems are detected. This reqires no
> > SW
> > interaction.
> 
> The trigger can be always deactivated from sysfs as well as set up
> again.
> 
> > What this driver intends to do is to allow SW to take over this.
> > Eg, if
> > system is designed so that it is preferably to use these LEDs for
> > some
> > other purpose it can be done by loading this LED driver and
> > allowing
> > user-space to control these LEDs via sysfs.
> 
> So the LED trigger interface would help to signalize in which state
> the LED is. If the trigger is set then it means the LED is under hw
> control.

This might be handy. I need to check the data-sheet because I think
there was own control for using one of the LEDs for charge indicator.
It might be that by-default the HW control of LEDs means that only the
power button presses are signaled via these LEDs. This trigger thing
could be handy for enabling/disabling also the charge indication as
well as for checking if LEDs are in forced state - although this might
be somewhat complicated because the 'turn led on' bit is connected to
the 'trigger'. Eg, even if the trigger says that SW is controlling LED,
turning off the LED may mean that trigger changes. But well, this is
the HW design we are dealing with at this time :/ In any case, I'll
leave this as further dev item for now.

Again, thanks for all the help!

Br,
	Matti Vaittinen

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