linux-kernel - Re: [PATCH RFC] mm: add MAP_EXCLUSIVE to create exclusive user mappings

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Date:   Tue, 29 Oct 2019 10:00:55 -0700
From:   Andy Lutomirski <luto@...nel.org>
To:     Mike Rapoport <rppt@...nel.org>
Cc:     LKML <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        Alexey Dobriyan <adobriyan@...il.com>,
        Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
        Andy Lutomirski <luto@...nel.org>,
        Arnd Bergmann <arnd@...db.de>, Borislav Petkov <bp@...en8.de>,
        Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@...ux.intel.com>,
        James Bottomley <jejb@...ux.ibm.com>,
        Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>,
        Steven Rostedt <rostedt@...dmis.org>,
        Thomas Gleixner <tglx@...utronix.de>,
        Ingo Molnar <mingo@...hat.com>,
        "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@...or.com>,
        Linux API <linux-api@...r.kernel.org>,
        Linux-MM <linux-mm@...ck.org>, X86 ML <x86@...nel.org>,
        Mike Rapoport <rppt@...ux.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH RFC] mm: add MAP_EXCLUSIVE to create exclusive user mappings

On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 2:33 AM Mike Rapoport <rppt@...nel.org> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Oct 28, 2019 at 02:44:23PM -0600, Andy Lutomirski wrote:
> >
> > > On Oct 27, 2019, at 4:17 AM, Mike Rapoport <rppt@...nel.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > From: Mike Rapoport <rppt@...ux.ibm.com>
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > The patch below aims to allow applications to create mappins that have
> > > pages visible only to the owning process. Such mappings could be used to
> > > store secrets so that these secrets are not visible neither to other
> > > processes nor to the kernel.
> > >
> > > I've only tested the basic functionality, the changes should be verified
> > > against THP/migration/compaction. Yet, I'd appreciate early feedback.
> >
> > I’ve contemplated the concept a fair amount, and I think you should
> > consider a change to the API. In particular, rather than having it be a
> > MAP_ flag, make it a chardev.  You can, at least at first, allow only
> > MAP_SHARED, and admins can decide who gets to use it.  It might also play
> > better with the VM overall, and you won’t need a VM_ flag for it — you
> > can just wire up .fault to do the right thing.
>
> I think mmap()/mprotect()/madvise() are the natural APIs for such
> interface.

Then you have a whole bunch of questions to answer.  For example:

What happens if you mprotect() or similar when the mapping is already
in use in a way that's incompatible with MAP_EXCLUSIVE?

Is it actually reasonable to malloc() some memory and then make it exclusive?

Are you permitted to map a file MAP_EXCLUSIVE?  What does it mean?

What does MAP_PRIVATE | MAP_EXCLUSIVE do?

How does one pass exclusive memory via SCM_RIGHTS?  (If it's a
memfd-like or chardev interface, it's trivial.  mmap(), not so much.)

And finally, there's my personal giant pet peeve: a major use of this
will be for virtualization.  I suspect that a lot of people would like
the majority of KVM guest memory to be unmapped from the host
pagetables.  But people might also like for guest memory to be
unmapped in *QEMU's* pagetables, and mmap() is a basically worthless
interface for this.  Getting fd-backed memory into a guest will take
some possibly major work in the kernel, but getting vma-backed memory
into a guest without mapping it in the host user address space seems
much, much worse.

> Switching to a chardev doesn't solve the major problem of direct
> map fragmentation and defeats the ability to use exclusive memory mappings
> with the existing allocators, while mprotect() and madvise() do not.
>

Will people really want to do malloc() and then remap it exclusive?
This sounds dubiously useful at best.