linux-kernel - Re: KCSAN: data-race in __alloc_file / __alloc

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Date:   Mon, 11 Nov 2019 10:04:54 -0800
From:   Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>
To:     Eric Dumazet <edumazet@...gle.com>
Cc:     Alan Stern <stern@...land.harvard.edu>,
        Marco Elver <elver@...gle.com>,
        Eric Dumazet <eric.dumazet@...il.com>,
        syzbot <syzbot+3ef049d50587836c0606@...kaller.appspotmail.com>,
        linux-fsdevel <linux-fsdevel@...r.kernel.org>,
        Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        syzkaller-bugs <syzkaller-bugs@...glegroups.com>,
        Al Viro <viro@...iv.linux.org.uk>,
        Andrea Parri <parri.andrea@...il.com>,
        "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@...nel.org>,
        LKMM Maintainers -- Akira Yokosawa <akiyks@...il.com>
Subject: Re: KCSAN: data-race in __alloc_file / __alloc_file

On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 9:52 AM Eric Dumazet <edumazet@...gle.com> wrote:
>
> Now I wonder what to do with the ~400 KCSAN reports sitting in
> pre-moderation queue.

So regular KASAN reports are fairly easy to deal with: they report
actual bugs. They may be hard to hit, but generally there's no
question about something like a use-after-free or whatever.

The problem with KCSAN is that it's not clear how many of the reports
have been actual real honest-to-goodness bugs that could cause
problems, and how many of them are "this isn't actually a bug, but an
annotation will shut up KCSAN".

My gut feeling would be that it would be best to ignore the ones that
are "an annotation will shut up KCSAN", and look at the ones that are
real bugs.

Is there a pattern to those real bugs? Is there perhaps a way to make
KCSAN notice _that_ pattern in particular, and suppress the ones that
are "we can shut these up with annotations that don't really change
the code"?

I think it would be much better for the kernel - and much better for
KCSAN - if the problem reports KCSAN reports are real problems that
can actually be triggered as problems, and that it behaves much more
like KASAN in that respect.

Yes, yes, then once the *real* problems have been handled, maybe we
can expand the search to be "stylistic issues" and "in theory, this
could cause problems with a compiler that did X" issues.

But I think the "just annotate" thing makes people more likely to
dismiss KCSAN issues, and I don't think it's healthy.

                Linus