Message-ID: <20191219151824.GI3178@techsingularity.net>
Date:   Thu, 19 Dec 2019 15:18:24 +0000
From:   Mel Gorman <mgorman@...hsingularity.net>
To:     Vincent Guittot <vincent.guittot@...aro.org>
Cc:     Ingo Molnar <mingo@...nel.org>,
        Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>, pauld@...hat.com,
        valentin.schneider@....com, srikar@...ux.vnet.ibm.com,
        quentin.perret@....com, dietmar.eggemann@....com,
        Morten.Rasmussen@....com, hdanton@...a.com, parth@...ux.ibm.com,
        riel@...riel.com, LKML <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] sched, fair: Allow a small degree of load imbalance
 between SD_NUMA domains

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 03:45:39PM +0100, Vincent Guittot wrote:
> Hi Mel,
> 
> Thanks for looking at this NUMA locality vs spreading tasks point.
> 

No problem.

> > @@ -8680,7 +8676,7 @@ static inline void calculate_imbalance(struct lb_env *env, struct sd_lb_stats *s
> >  			env->migration_type = migrate_task;
> >  			lsub_positive(&nr_diff, local->sum_nr_running);
> >  			env->imbalance = nr_diff >> 1;
> > -			return;
> > +			goto out_spare;
> 
> Why are you doing this only for prefer_sibling case ? That's probably the default case of most of numa system but you should also consider others case too.
> 

It's the common case for NUMA machines I'm aware of and from the
perspective of allowing a slight imbalance when there are spare CPUs, I
felt it was the same whether we were considering idle CPUs or the number
of tasks running.

The prefer_sibling case applies to the children and the corner case is
that balancing NUMA domains takes into account whether the MC domain
prefers siblings which is a bit odd. I believe, but don't know, that the
reasoning may have been to spread load for memory bandwidth usage.

> So you should probably add your
> 
> > +                * Whether balancing the number of running tasks or the number
> > +                * of idle CPUs, consider allowing some degree of imbalance if
> > +                * migrating between NUMA domains.
> > +                */
> > +               if (env->sd->flags & SD_NUMA) {
> > +                       unsigned int imbalance_adj, imbalance_max;
> 
> ...
> 
> > +               }
> 
> before the prefer_sibling case :
> 
> 		if (busiest->group_weight == 1 || sds->prefer_sibling) {
> 			unsigned int nr_diff = busiest->sum_nr_running;
> 			/*
> 			 * When prefer sibling, evenly spread running tasks on
> 			 * groups.
> 			 */
> 

I don't understand. If I move SD_NUMA checks above the imbalance
calculation, how do I know whether the imbalance should be ignored?

> 
> >
> >  		}
> >  
> >  		/*
> > @@ -8690,6 +8686,38 @@ static inline void calculate_imbalance(struct lb_env *env, struct sd_lb_stats *s
> >  		env->migration_type = migrate_task;
> >  		env->imbalance = max_t(long, 0, (local->idle_cpus -
> >  						 busiest->idle_cpus) >> 1);
> > +
> > +out_spare:
> > +		/*
> > +		 * Whether balancing the number of running tasks or the number
> > +		 * of idle CPUs, consider allowing some degree of imbalance if
> > +		 * migrating between NUMA domains.
> > +		 */
> > +		if (env->sd->flags & SD_NUMA) {
> > +			unsigned int imbalance_adj, imbalance_max;
> > +
> > +			/*
> > +			 * imbalance_adj is the allowable degree of imbalance
> > +			 * to exist between two NUMA domains. It's calculated
> > +			 * relative to imbalance_pct with a minimum of two
> > +			 * tasks or idle CPUs.
> > +			 */
> > +			imbalance_adj = (busiest->group_weight *
> > +				(env->sd->imbalance_pct - 100) / 100) >> 1;
> > +			imbalance_adj = max(imbalance_adj, 2U);
> > +
> > +			/*
> > +			 * Ignore imbalance unless busiest sd is close to 50%
> > +			 * utilisation. At that point balancing for memory
> > +			 * bandwidth and potentially avoiding unnecessary use
> > +			 * of HT siblings is as relevant as memory locality.
> > +			 */
> > +			imbalance_max = (busiest->group_weight >> 1) - imbalance_adj;
> > +			if (env->imbalance <= imbalance_adj &&
> > +			    busiest->sum_nr_running < imbalance_max) {i
> 
> Shouldn't you consider the number of busiest->idle_cpus instead of the busiest->sum_nr_running ?
> 

Why? CPU affinity could have stacked multiple tasks on one CPU where
as I'm looking for a proxy hint on the amount of bandwidth required.
sum_nr_running does not give me an accurate estimate but it's better than
idle cpus.

> and you could simplify by 
> 
> 
> 	if ((env->sd->flags & SD_NUMA) &&
> 		((100 * busiest->group_weight) <= (env->sd->imbalance_pct * (busiest->idle_cpus << 1)))) {
> 			env->imbalance = 0;
> 			return;
> 	}
> 
> And otherwise it will continue with the current path
> 

I ended up doing something similar to this in v2 but it's a bit more
expanded so I can put in comments on why the comparisons are the way
they are. The multiplications are in the slow path.

> Also I'm a bit worry about using a 50% threshold that look a bit like a
> heuristic which can change depending of platform and the UCs that run of the
> system.
> 

UCs?

And yes, it's a heuristic. In this case, I'm as concerned about memory
bandwidth availability as I am about improper locality due to agressive
balancing. We do not know the available memory bandwidth and we do not
know how much bandwidth the tasks required so 50% was as good as threshold
as any. I do not know of any way that can cheaply measure either bandwidth
usage (PMUs are not cheap) or available bandwidth (theoretical bandwidth !=
actual bandwidth).

In an earlier version that I never posted, I had no cutoff at all and
NAS took a roughly 30% performance penalty across all computational
kernels. Debug tracing led me to this cutoff and running a battery
of workloads led me to believe that it was a reasonable cutoff. It's
important.

> In fact i was hoping that we could use the numa_preferred_nid ?

Unfortunately not. For some tasks, they are not long-lived enough for NUMA
balancing to make a decision. For longer-lived tasks, if load balancing is
spreading the load across nodes and wakeups are pulling tasks together,
NUMA balancing will get a mix of remote/local samples and will be unable
to pick a node properly.

In the netperf figures I put in the changelog, I pointed out that NUMA
balancing sampled roughly 50% of accesses were remote. With the patch,
100% of the samples are local.

> During the
> detach of tasks, we don't detach the task if busiest has spare capacity and
> preferred_nid of the task is busiest.
> 

Sure, but again if load balancing and waker/wakees are fighting each
other, NUMA balancing gets caught in the crossfire and cannot make a
sensible decision.

-- 
Mel Gorman
SUSE Labs

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