Message-ID: <CACAvsv6-7F=JCZeVu4ATsfubtr8huVJFUPuq-xBVgmN2ueX-4A@mail.gmail.com>
Date:   Mon, 3 Feb 2020 12:07:56 +1000
From:   Ben Skeggs <skeggsb@...il.com>
To:     Dave Airlie <airlied@...il.com>
Cc:     Lucas Stach <l.stach@...gutronix.de>,
        Alex Deucher <alexdeucher@...il.com>,
        Karol Herbst <karolherbst@...il.com>,
        "Alex G." <mr.nuke.me@...il.com>,
        Bjorn Helgaas <helgaas@...nel.org>,
        Alexandru Gagniuc <alex_gagniuc@...lteam.com>,
        Keith Busch <keith.busch@...el.com>, Jens Axboe <axboe@...com>,
        Christoph Hellwig <hch@....de>,
        Sagi Grimberg <sagi@...mberg.me>,
        David Airlie <airlied@...ux.ie>,
        Daniel Vetter <daniel@...ll.ch>,
        Jan Vesely <jano.vesely@...il.com>,
        Lukas Wunner <lukas@...ner.de>,
        Alex Williamson <alex.williamson@...hat.com>,
        Austin Bolen <austin_bolen@...l.com>,
        Shyam Iyer <Shyam_Iyer@...l.com>,
        Sinan Kaya <okaya@...nel.org>,
        Linux PCI <linux-pci@...r.kernel.org>,
        LKML <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: Issues with "PCI/LINK: Report degraded links via link bandwidth notification"

On Mon, 3 Feb 2020 at 12:04, Dave Airlie <airlied@...il.com> wrote:
>
> On Mon, 3 Feb 2020 at 11:56, Dave Airlie <airlied@...il.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, 21 Jan 2020 at 21:11, Lucas Stach <l.stach@...gutronix.de> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Mo, 2020-01-20 at 10:01 -0600, Alex G. wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On 1/19/20 8:33 PM, Bjorn Helgaas wrote:
> > > > > [+cc NVMe, GPU driver folks]
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 04:10:08PM -0600, Bjorn Helgaas wrote:
> > > > > > I think we have a problem with link bandwidth change notifications
> > > > > > (see https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/drivers/pci/pcie/bw_notification.c).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Here's a recent bug report where Jan reported "_tons_" of these
> > > > > > notifications on an nvme device:
> > > > > > https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=206197
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There was similar discussion involving GPU drivers at
> > > > > > https://lore.kernel.org/r/20190429185611.121751-2-helgaas@kernel.org
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The current solution is the CONFIG_PCIE_BW config option, which
> > > > > > disables the messages completely.  That option defaults to "off" (no
> > > > > > messages), but even so, I think it's a little problematic.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Users are not really in a position to figure out whether it's safe to
> > > > > > enable.  All they can do is experiment and see whether it works with
> > > > > > their current mix of devices and drivers.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't think it's currently useful for distros because it's a
> > > > > > compile-time switch, and distros cannot predict what system configs
> > > > > > will be used, so I don't think they can enable it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Does anybody have proposals for making it smarter about distinguishing
> > > > > > real problems from intentional power management, or maybe interfaces
> > > > > > drivers could use to tell us when we should ignore bandwidth changes?
> > > > >
> > > > > NVMe, GPU folks, do your drivers or devices change PCIe link
> > > > > speed/width for power saving or other reasons?  When CONFIG_PCIE_BW=y,
> > > > > the PCI core interprets changes like that as problems that need to be
> > > > > reported.
> > > > >
> > > > > If drivers do change link speed/width, can you point me to where
> > > > > that's done?  Would it be feasible to add some sort of PCI core
> > > > > interface so the driver could say "ignore" or "pay attention to"
> > > > > subsequent link changes?
> > > > >
> > > > > Or maybe there would even be a way to move the link change itself into
> > > > > the PCI core, so the core would be aware of what's going on?
> > > >
> > > > Funny thing is, I was going to suggest an in-kernel API for this.
> > > >    * Driver requests lower link speed 'X'
> > > >    * Link management interrupt fires
> > > >    * If link speed is at or above 'X' then do not report it.
> > > > I think an "ignore" flag would defeat the purpose of having link
> > > > bandwidth reporting in the first place. If some drivers set it, and
> > > > others don't, then it would be inconsistent enough to not be useful.
> > > >
> > > > A second suggestion is, if there is a way to ratelimit these messages on
> > > > a per-downstream port basis.
> > >
> > > Both AMD and Nvidia GPUs have embedded controllers, which are
> > > responsible for the power management. IIRC those controllers can
> > > autonomously initiate PCIe link speed changes depending on measured bus
> > > load. So there is no way for the driver to signal the requested bus
> > > speed to the PCIe core.
> > >
> > > I guess for the GPU usecase the best we can do is to have the driver
> > > opt-out of the link bandwidth notifications, as the driver knows that
> > > there is some autonomous entity on the endpoint mucking with the link
> > > parameters.
> > >
> >
> > Adding Alex and Ben for AMD and NVIDIA info (and Karol).
We don't attempt link speed changes by default in Nouveau currently,
however, I believe we will (if instructed by the VBIOS perf tables) if
you enable clock frequency changes.  We do this from the driver code
currently, but I'm not 100% sure what this will look like if/when we
receive PMU firmware.  More and more autonomy is being pushed into
there by NVIDIA with each generation, it's possible that even happens
on Volta/Turing PMU already, it's not an area I've looked into
recently.

Ben.

> >
> > Dave.

Powered by blists - more mailing lists