Message-ID: <20200216044551-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org>
Date:   Sun, 16 Feb 2020 04:46:12 -0500
From:   "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@...hat.com>
To:     Tyler Sanderson <tysand@...gle.com>
Cc:     David Hildenbrand <david@...hat.com>,
        Michal Hocko <mhocko@...nel.org>, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
        linux-mm@...ck.org, virtualization@...ts.linux-foundation.org,
        Wei Wang <wei.w.wang@...el.com>,
        Alexander Duyck <alexander.h.duyck@...ux.intel.com>,
        David Rientjes <rientjes@...gle.com>,
        Nadav Amit <namit@...are.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v1 3/3] virtio-balloon: Switch back to OOM handler for
 VIRTIO_BALLOON_F_DEFLATE_ON_OOM

On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 12:48:42PM -0800, Tyler Sanderson wrote:
> Regarding Wei's patch that modifies the shrinker implementation, versus this
> patch which reverts to OOM notifier:
> I am in favor of both patches. But I do want to make sure a fix gets back
> ported to 4.19 where the performance regression was first introduced.
> My concern with reverting to the OOM notifier is, as mst@ put it (in the other
> thread):
> "when linux hits OOM all kind of error paths are being hit, latent bugs start
> triggering, latency goes up drastically."
> The guest could be in a lot of pain before the OOM notifier is invoked, and it
> seems like the shrinker API might allow more fine grained control of when we
> deflate.
> 
> On the other hand, I'm not totally convinced that Wei's patch is an expected
> use of the shrinker/page-cache APIs, and maybe it is fragile. Needs more
> testing and scrutiny.
> 
> It seems to me like the shrinker API is the right API in the long run, perhaps
> with some fixes and modifications. But maybe reverting to OOM notifier is the
> best patch to back port?

In that case can I see some Tested-by reports pls?


> On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 6:19 AM David Hildenbrand <david@...hat.com> wrote:
> 
>     >> There was a report that this results in undesired side effects when
>     >> inflating the balloon to shrink the page cache. [1]
>     >>      "When inflating the balloon against page cache (i.e. no free memory
>     >>       remains) vmscan.c will both shrink page cache, but also invoke the
>     >>       shrinkers -- including the balloon's shrinker. So the balloon
>     >>       driver allocates memory which requires reclaim, vmscan gets this
>     >>       memory by shrinking the balloon, and then the driver adds the
>     >>       memory back to the balloon. Basically a busy no-op."
>     >>
>     >> The name "deflate on OOM" makes it pretty clear when deflation should
>     >> happen - after other approaches to reclaim memory failed, not while
>     >> reclaiming. This allows to minimize the footprint of a guest - memory
>     >> will only be taken out of the balloon when really needed.
>     >>
>     >> Especially, a drop_slab() will result in the whole balloon getting
>     >> deflated - undesired.
>     >
>     > Could you explain why some more? drop_caches shouldn't be really used in
>     > any production workloads and if somebody really wants all the cache to
>     > be dropped then why is balloon any different?
>     >
> 
>     Deflation should happen when the guest is out of memory, not when
>     somebody thinks it's time to reclaim some memory. That's what the
>     feature promised from the beginning: Only give the guest more memory in
>     case it *really* needs more memory.
> 
>     Deflate on oom, not deflate on reclaim/memory pressure. (that's what the
>     report was all about)
> 
>     A priority for shrinkers might be a step into the right direction.
> 
>     --
>     Thanks,
> 
>     David / dhildenb
> 
> 

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