Message-ID: <20200414101358.3ae66ac5@w520.home>
Date:   Tue, 14 Apr 2020 10:13:58 -0600
From:   Alex Williamson <alex.williamson@...hat.com>
To:     Jacob Pan <jacob.jun.pan@...ux.intel.com>
Cc:     "Tian, Kevin" <kevin.tian@...el.com>,
        Christoph Hellwig <hch@...radead.org>,
        Joerg Roedel <joro@...tes.org>,
        Lu Baolu <baolu.lu@...ux.intel.com>,
        "iommu@...ts.linux-foundation.org" <iommu@...ts.linux-foundation.org>,
        LKML <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        David Woodhouse <dwmw2@...radead.org>,
        Jean-Philippe Brucker <jean-philippe@...aro.com>,
        "Raj, Ashok" <ashok.raj@...el.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 1/3] iommu/uapi: Define uapi version and capabilities

On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 22:05:15 -0700
Jacob Pan <jacob.jun.pan@...ux.intel.com> wrote:

> Hi Alex,
> Thanks a lot for the feedback, my comments inline.
> 
> On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 16:21:29 -0600
> Alex Williamson <alex.williamson@...hat.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 13:41:57 -0700
> > Jacob Pan <jacob.jun.pan@...ux.intel.com> wrote:
> >   
> > > Hi All,
> > > 
> > > Just a gentle reminder, any feedback on the options I listed below?
> > > New ideas will be even better.
> > > 
> > > Christoph, does the explanation make sense to you? We do have the
> > > capability/flag based scheme for IOMMU API extension, the version is
> > > mainly used for size lookup. Compatibility checking is another use
> > > of the version, it makes checking easy when a vIOMMU is launched.
> > > 
> > > Thanks,
> > > 
> > > Jacob
> > > 
> > > On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 11:36:04 -0700
> > > Jacob Pan <jacob.jun.pan@...ux.intel.com> wrote:
> > >     
> > > > On Wed, 1 Apr 2020 05:32:21 +0000
> > > > "Tian, Kevin" <kevin.tian@...el.com> wrote:
> > > >       
> > > > > > From: Jacob Pan <jacob.jun.pan@...ux.intel.com>
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 11:55 PM
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 06:06:38 +0000
> > > > > > "Tian, Kevin" <kevin.tian@...el.com> wrote:
> > > > > >           
> > > > > > > > From: Jacob Pan <jacob.jun.pan@...ux.intel.com>
> > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 12:08 AM
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 05:40:40 +0000
> > > > > > > > "Tian, Kevin" <kevin.tian@...el.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > >          
> > > > > > > > > > From: Jacob Pan <jacob.jun.pan@...ux.intel.com>
> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2020 7:54 AM
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 27 Mar 2020 00:47:02 -0700
> > > > > > > > > > Christoph Hellwig <hch@...radead.org> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >          
> > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 02:49:55AM +0000, Tian,
> > > > > > > > > > > Kevin wrote:          
> > > > > > > > > > > > If those API calls are inter-dependent for
> > > > > > > > > > > > composing a feature (e.g. SVA), shouldn't we need
> > > > > > > > > > > > a way to check them together before exposing the
> > > > > > > > > > > > feature to the guest, e.g. through a
> > > > > > > > > > > > iommu_get_uapi_capabilities interface?          
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Yes, that makes sense.  The important bit is to
> > > > > > > > > > > have a capability flags and not version
> > > > > > > > > > > numbers.          
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The challenge is that there are two consumers in the
> > > > > > > > > > kernel for this. 1. VFIO only look for compatibility,
> > > > > > > > > > and size of each data struct such that it can
> > > > > > > > > > copy_from_user.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 2. IOMMU driver, the "real consumer" of the content.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > For 2, I agree and we do plan to use the capability
> > > > > > > > > > flags to check content and maintain backward
> > > > > > > > > > compatibility etc.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > For VFIO, it is difficult to do size look up based on
> > > > > > > > > > capability flags.          
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Can you elaborate the difficulty in VFIO? if, as
> > > > > > > > > Christoph Hellwig pointed out, version number is
> > > > > > > > > already avoided everywhere, it is interesting to know
> > > > > > > > > whether this work becomes a real exception or just
> > > > > > > > > requires a different mindset.       
> > > > > > > > From VFIO p.o.v. the IOMMU UAPI data is opaque, it only
> > > > > > > > needs to do two things:
> > > > > > > > 1. is the UAPI compatible?
> > > > > > > > 2. what is the size to copy?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If you look at the version number, this is really a
> > > > > > > > "version as size" lookup, as provided by the helper
> > > > > > > > function in this patch. An example can be the newly
> > > > > > > > introduced clone3 syscall.
> > > > > > > > https://lwn.net/Articles/792628/ In clone3, new version
> > > > > > > > must have new size. The slight difference here is that,
> > > > > > > > unlike clone3, we have multiple data structures instead
> > > > > > > > of a single struct clone_args {}. And each struct has
> > > > > > > > flags to enumerate its contents besides size.          
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks for providing that link. However clone3 doesn't
> > > > > > > include a version field to do "version as size" lookup.
> > > > > > > Instead, as you said, it includes a size parameter which
> > > > > > > sounds like the option 3 (argsz) listed below.
> > > > > > >          
> > > > > > Right, there is no version in clone3. size = version. I view
> > > > > > this as a 1:1 lookup.
> > > > > >           
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Besides breaching data abstraction, if VFIO has to check
> > > > > > > > IOMMU flags to determine the sizes, it has many
> > > > > > > > combinations.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > We also separate the responsibilities into two parts
> > > > > > > > 1. compatibility - version, size by VFIO
> > > > > > > > 2. sanity check - capability flags - by IOMMU          
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I feel argsz+flags approach can perfectly meet above
> > > > > > > requirement. The userspace set the size and flags for
> > > > > > > whatever capabilities it uses, and VFIO simply copies the
> > > > > > > parameters by size and pass to IOMMU for further sanity
> > > > > > > check. Of course the assumption is that we do provide an
> > > > > > > interface for userspace to enumerate all supported
> > > > > > > capabilities.         
> > > > > > You cannot trust user for argsz. the size to be copied from
> > > > > > user must be based on knowledge in kernel. That is why we
> > > > > > have this version to size lookup.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > In VFIO, the size to copy is based on knowledge of each VFIO
> > > > > > UAPI structures and VFIO flags. But here the flags are IOMMU
> > > > > > UAPI flags. As you pointed out in another thread, VFIO is one
> > > > > > user.          
> > > > > 
> > > > > If that is the case, can we let VFIO only copy its own UAPI
> > > > > fields while simply passing the user pointer of IOMMU UAPI
> > > > > structure to IOMMU driver for further size check and copy?
> > > > > Otherwise we are entering a dead end that VFIO doesn't want to
> > > > > parse a structure which is not defined by him while using
> > > > > version to represent the black box size is considered as a
> > > > > discarded scheme and doesn't scale well...       
> > > > I think this could be an other viable option. Let me try to
> > > > summarize since this has been a long discussion since the
> > > > original version.
> > > > 
> > > > Problem statements:
> > > > 1. When launching vIOMMU in the guest, how can we ensure the host
> > > > has compatible support upfront? as compared to fail later.    
> > 
> > This sounds like a feature/extension interface, both KVM and vfio have
> > them to allow userspace to check support of specific features.
> >   
> Yes, the specific features are the APIs:
> - bind guest PASID
> - cache invalidation
> - page requests & response
> 
> > > > 2. As UAPI data gets extended (both in size and flags), how can we
> > > > know the size to copy    
> > 
> > For vfio we of course use the argsz/flags trick where the user tells
> > us how big the buffer is and flags in the header tell us what fields
> > beyond the base specification are enabled.  This can get tricky to
> > extend and there can be confusion whether a flag indicates the
> > presence of a field or the validity of a field.
> > 
> > We also have interfaces where the ioctl is a header plus a data blob
> > where flags tell us what the data is.  These can serve double duty as
> > a extension check too as we've done for VFIO_DEVICE_FEATURE.  This
> > doesn't really support extension of a defined feature though, rather
> > we'd be more likely to create a set of flags that indicate the data
> > object is feature-v2 and redefine the structure, or of course we
> > revisit the entire featuring question within the structure of that
> > data blob.
> > 
> > We also implement capability chains, though they're more meant for
> > passing data to the user, where the user provides a buffer and we link
> > capabilities together within that buffer for the user to walk.  We've
> > defined a mechanism through -ENOSPC and argsz to tell the user how
> > large a buffer is necessary.  I dare mention we have a version per
> > capability as these are largely modeled after capability chains in PCI
> > config space.  We haven't actually incremented any versions, but I
> > imagine we'd do so like PCI, maintaining backwards compatibility and
> > only defining unused bits and adding fields as the version increases.
> >   
> I guess capability chain is more suitable since the IOCTL uses
> container FD instead of device FD in VFIO_DEVICE_FEATURE?
> 
> We can give that a try by treating IOMMU UAPIs as capabilities. That
> would address problem #1. We really need to check compatibility upfront
> in that there is no way to fail some of the UAPIs. e.g. unbind guest
> PASID, cache invalidation.
> 
> > Is the objection to a global version or to any version fields?  I
> > don't really understand the global version, I'd think a mechanism to
> > check extensions plus a per structure flags/version would be
> > preferred.  The former should resolve how userspace can test support
> > for features requiring multiple interfaces.  
> Currently we already have individual version & flags per UAPI data. The
> reason why I introduced a global/unifier is to simplify the
> compatibility checking. Global version is optional.
> With individual version & flags, user may have to keep track of
> combinations of per structure versions.

A user would only need to meet the minimum uapi matching the feature
they want to support, right?
 
> >  A global version also
> > implies that we're only ever adding features and never removing.  For
> > example, feature Foo is added in version 4, but it's replaced by
> > feature Bar in version 5, now userspace can't simply test version >=
> > 4 must include feature Foo.
> >   
> Yes, this is why I was hoping to stick with the rule: open for
> extension, closed to modification.
> It also makes the code backward compatible easy since there old code
> would have no change when adding new features.

But we need a way to deprecate things.  The version interface is not
good for that.

> > It seems to me that version and flags can also be complimentary, for
> > example a field might be defined by a version but a flag could
> > indicate if it's implemented.  With only the flag, we'd infer the
> > field from the flag, with only the version we'd need to assume the
> > field is always implemented.  So I have a hard time making a blanket
> > statement that all versions fields should be avoided.
> >    
> > > > 3. Maintain backward compatibility while allowing extensions?
> > > > 
> > > > I think we all agreed that using flags (capability or types) is
> > > > the way to address #3. As Christoph pointed out, version number
> > > > should not be used for this purpose.
> > > > 
> > > > So for problem 1 & 2, we have the following options:
> > > > 1. Have a version-size mapping as proposed in this set. VFIO
> > > > copies from user the correct size based on version-type lookup.
> > > > Processing of the data is based on flags in IOMMU driver.
> > > > 
> > > > 2. VFIO copy its own minsz then pass the user pointer to IOMMU
> > > > driver for further copy_from_user based on flags. (by Kevin)
> > > > 
> > > > 3. Adopt VFIO argsz scheme, caller fills in argsz for the offset
> > > > the variable size union. VFIO do not check argsz in that it
> > > > requires IOMMU specific knowledge. IOMMU driver Use flags to
> > > > handle the variable size.(by Alex). I think this what we have in
> > > > Yi's VFIO & QEMU patch. argsz filled by QEMU includes bind_data.
> > > > 
> > > > 4. Do not use a unified version, have a fixed size of all UAPI
> > > > structures, padding in struct and union. (Wasteful, not preferred
> > > > per V1 discussion)
> > > > 
> > > > For both 2 & 3, a unified version is not used, each API
> > > > treated separately. vIOMMU will be launched w/o assurance of
> > > > compatibility of all APIs. Fault handling may be more complex in
> > > > normal operations.
> > > > 
> > > > Appreciate everyone's input. Joerg and Alex, could you help to
> > > > make a decision here?    
> > 
> > As above, I think using a global API version number to imply support
> > for a feature is doomed to fail, we should instead expose an interface
> > to check for specific features.  
> I agree. I feel we can use the capability chain at container level as
> you mentioned, right?

We could either do a capability chain on the IOMMU_GET_INFO ioctl or we
have the CHECK_EXTENSION ioctl.  The latter is quite a bit easier to
implement, but limited in what it can expose and the semantics around
checking extensions before vs after an IOMMU model is set can be
confusing.  I didn't have a strong preference between them when
suggesting Kirti use one of these to indicate dirty page tracking, but
it would be nice if both features used the same mechanism

> >  In any of the proposed solutions, the
> > IOMMU driver is ultimately responsible for validating the user data,
> > so do we want vfio performing the copy_from_user() to an object that
> > could later be assumed to be sanitized, or should vfio just pass a
> > user pointer to make it obvious that the consumer is responsible for
> > all the user protections?  Seems like the latter.  
> I like the latter as well.
> 
> >  That still really
> > doesn't address what's in that user data blob yet, but the vfio
> > interface could be:
> > 
> > struct {
> > 	__u32 argsz;
> > 	__u32 flags;
> > 	__u8  data[];
> > }
> > 
> > Where flags might be partitioned like we do for DEVICE_FEATURE to
> > indicate the format of data and what vfio should do with it, and data
> > might simply be defined as a (__u64 __user *).
> >   
> So, __user * will be passed to IOMMU driver if VFIO checks minsz
> include flags and they are valid.
> IOMMU driver can copy the rest based on the mandatory version/minsz and
> flags in the IOMMU uAPI structs.
> Does it sound right? This is really choice #2.

Sounds like each IOMMU UAPI struct just needs to have an embedded size
and flags field, but yes.
 
> > This user pointer would then likely be an IOMMU UAPI struct, so I've
> > only just gotten back the the IOMMU UAPI question at hand, but I don't
> > really see the disadvantage to including both version and flags fields
> > per structure.  Perhaps this is choice 1. above, but with a version at
> > a per structure level indicating the backwards compatible size and
> > layout of the structure and flags being used to indicate support for
> > optional features within those fields.  
> 
> Per structure version & flags is what we have in the mainline. It
> applies to both choice 1 & 2. The global/unified version is just a
> re-interpretation of the versions such that we have a monolithic
> incrementing version. Again, global version is optional.
> 
> >  Is a version field still taboo
> > for such a use case?  Thanks,  
> 
> I will leave that to Christoph :)

Looks like if we drop the global version in favor of an
extension/feature check and embed size and flags fields in each IOMMU
UAPI struct, Christoph will be satisfied.  Thanks,

Alex

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